Plays On Word Radio
An in-depth look at the Word of God, the Plays On Word community, and the Plays - with original music - we perform, that are based on the Word of God. New episodes drop Fridays at 7AM EST! To find out how Plays On Word Theater can perform 'LIVE on YOUR STAGE' and to support this missionary & podcast visit: https://playsonword.org/
Plays On Word Radio
Ep 109: Empowering Spiritual Leaders on Stage and Beyond (Part 2)
"Have you ever felt lonely while surrounded by many people? Ministry can even be a very lonely place. Today we examine the critical need for self-care among pastors and church leaders to prevent burnout and sustain their ministry."
Have you ever wondered what it takes to truly care for oneself while serving others? Our latest episode promises to enhance your understanding of self-care in ministry, as we welcome Scott and Lynn Jackson from the Thrive Leadership Foundation. Through insightful parallels between engine maintenance and pastoral well-being, we explore how leaders can prioritize their own health to prevent burnout. With stories from real life and biblical teachings, we unravel the necessity of self-care as a fundamental practice for sustaining effective ministry, all while preserving personal and spiritual health.
Discover how the path to recovery from ministry burnout can be a journey of growth and healing. Guided by Romans 8:28, we delve into how God turns our brokenness into opportunities for transformation. Scott and Lynn share experiences of overcoming adversity, highlighting how partners, especially wives, play an essential role in this journey. We explore the power of setting boundaries and creating space for spiritual rejuvenation, offering a gentle reminder of the importance of pausing to listen to the Holy Spirit amid the busyness of life.
As we wrap up, we reflect on the transformative power of the Refresh Getaway retreats. Initially met with skepticism, these retreats become sanctuaries for pastors and their spouses, breaking isolation and fostering meaningful connections. We share heartfelt stories of renewal and gratitude, celebrating the lasting friendships formed and the divine support that makes these moments possible. Finally, we close with a blessing for our listeners, extending our appreciation for their continued support and looking forward to our next inspiring conversation.
PlayGrounds section:
Recorded after our 'PETE' performance during the 2025 Pastors & Ministry Leaders Conference at America's Keswick Christian Retreat & Conference Center
Scott Jackson, CEO & Co-Founder (husband)
Lynn Jackson, Co-Founder, Partnership Development (wife)
Thrive Leadership Foundation
Website: https://thrivelead.org/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ThriveLeadershipFoundation/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thrivelead/
Are you a full time ministry couple that needs to be refreshed?
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Speaker 3:You know, the engines that last the longest are the ones that have maintenance done, you know.
Speaker 4:That's right, man. Change the oil, change the spark plugs, change the belts. That's right, amen, you don't want to wait until the check engine light's on and you're 300 miles from home.
Speaker 3:Yes, and unfortunately many pastors are like you know. The dashboard's all lit up and they're like well, I can still make it another 50 miles. This is hitting a little too close home for Katie.
Speaker 1:Too soon. Yeah, yeah, you're the only name. You're the only name. You're the only name. Hello and welcome to Plays on Word Radio, where we discuss, analyze, work and play on the Word of God. Thank you for joining us on this excursion today. Let's join Pastor Teddy, also known as Fred David Kenny Jr, the founder of Plays on Word Theater, as he does a deep dive into the Word of God.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Hallelujah, amen, amen, amen. Welcome back all of you to Plays on Word Radio. Thank you very much, katie Kenney and Josh Taylor, for that intro. We are going to continue with Scott and Lynn Jackson from the Thrive Leadership Foundation, this conversation we started last week.
Speaker 2:Check it out we cannot love others well if we're not taking care of ourselves. And so many people in ministry they'll say, well, I'd rather burn out than rust out. And I heard someone say, well, why do you want to do? Either you're out either way, you know, let's. Let's not burn out or rust out, but it's take care of the little things so that we can truly love and care for those around us. We will not be as effective in anything we do if we are not taking care of ourselves.
Speaker 4:I think part of the challenge too. What I love about both programs is it's not just, like you said, taking time out to take care of yourself, but a lot of people don't know how you know, because when we're in ministry.
Speaker 4:how many times has someone come to you with a problem or issue when it's not your own? You have focus, you know exactly. You can direct them to scripture and you can. You know you can show them the way. But when it comes to our own stuff in quotes, we don't know how. And you guys show us how, both programs you know, for couples and for the women, and it's just.
Speaker 3:That brings up something interesting. So I'm going to play the typical guy whose wife says, hey, we should probably go to this thing. Not just the typical guy, the pastor guy. I don't need to go to another seminar and just give me a bunch of a bullet list of things I need to stop doing or need to not do. Is that what I'm going to run into if I come to the refresh? Am I going to get a bullet list of just what could I expect if I go? I mean, I could probably answer that, but I'm going to let you guys in. I'm playing the advocate here.
Speaker 5:Well, the idea is not to come and fill a notebook full of notes and to have every minute filled. The idea is to come and to stop to slow down, to come as a child of God, not as a pastor and a pastor's wife, and to allow yourself to breathe a little bit. And we do have sessions, but hopefully they're short and sweet and we give you things to think about and to go and talk to your spouse about, and then you have some downtime, you know, to get refreshed and to get renewed.
Speaker 2:And I think to go along with that is it's a small gathering, so it's not like it's an overwhelming huge group of people. It's six to eight couples. But it's the idea that as you start hearing other people's stories, you go like, oh, I'm not the only one that struggles like this, I'm not the only one that feels this way, because so often I think those in ministry feel so isolated because if they share with their congregation or if they share with their leadership team, they may lose their job, and so Just for sharing the fact that they're human and they're feeling a certain way or they're dealing with something.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly, and so to have them come to refresh and that's why we call it refresh. We want you to come and get refreshed. We don't want you to have a notebook full of notes that you're not going to do anything with. We want you to come and get refreshed and get recharged, or at least begin to learn. How do I do that? Because no one teaches us that. For the most part, no one teaches us how to continually get refreshed. And so Jesus teaches us that he continually took his disciples away. Okay, we need to get away. I need to get away. He would say. Well, that sounds self-absorbed. No, that's called self-care.
Speaker 2:And Jesus modeled self-care, even of himself. In his humanity he modeled that self-care. He had to get alone with his father.
Speaker 3:He had to get away from the crowd get in the boat, let's go to the other side. He knew the importance of getting away to be able to recharge. That was very impressive to me. That impressed on me when we went. Now I'm going to speak as somebody, as an alumni, and it was very impressive and I had. Do you normally see the guys come in and be a little wound up or whatever, be a little agitated? And then I know for me, my personal experience I was like, okay, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go because I'm gonna honor my wife, I'm gonna try to love her as Christ loves the church. She really wants to go. So, okay, I'll go, I'll go and I went and I'm sitting there and it took me.
Speaker 3:Maybe a few hours, but then I was just like I wait, I can, I can relax and I'm sitting there and it took me maybe a few hours.
Speaker 1:But then I was like wait, I can relax and I don't know if it was you or Scott.
Speaker 3:One of you was like you just need to relax.
Speaker 1:I think I even asked you guys want me to do a?
Speaker 5:play for you, or something.
Speaker 3:And you're like no, no, no.
Speaker 5:You are not on Right.
Speaker 1:I was like wait.
Speaker 3:I actually I can turn the car off for a minute. I can turn the engine off. Let me try it. And it was because it was a safe place and I was able to oh, wait a minute, wow, and some of the things that were reinforced, that you guys taught us and that we spoke about. It's great to be around other people Like I think, of the relationships that we formed lifetime relationships with people at your retreat.
Speaker 4:I think that and it's funny that you said that, because I was going to mention it too and I think that's attributed to the fact that it is so intimate You're not in front of 200 people, which you know there's a place for that as well but because it's so intimate, we're at a conference right now at America's Keswick, for pastors and ministry leaders and some of the brothers and sisters that we met at both of your conferences like you said, like Ted said, we have lifelong friendships with them and we picked up right where we left off. And it's because we came to a place together and we're all vulnerable together and we're able to take your core, the core principles that you gave us, and implement them. And I'm going to get teared up, it's just. It's just. It's a beautiful thing to see my brothers and sisters again.
Speaker 5:This is so. So thank you for that. Well, this is really good to hear, because let me tell you how it evolved to that Because we were planning Ref refresh in the very beginning and I love a party Like, if we're going to have four people, well, we should have at least eight. Well, if we're going to have eight, you know well what about this person and that person.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 5:Scott was so calm and so focused. Six to eight nobody's going so focused. Six to eight Nobody's going to hide. Six to eight Everyone will be seen. Six to eight couples Everyone will be heard. And I'm oh, that sounds so boring. I think they're going to be bored. Scott, I think we need a minimum of 12, 12 couples.
Speaker 2:We stuck with the six to eight Twelve dozen is what you really would like to say.
Speaker 5:Oh yeah, I mean there's 12 rooms at the inn.
Speaker 2:There were 12 disciples. Come on.
Speaker 4:It's a biblical number, it is the lady was bleeding for 12 years.
Speaker 3:The kid was 12 years older, so seven.
Speaker 5:There you go. So I have actually followed the model and for Gentle Warriors, I'm focusing on six to eight women as well. And nobody hides, everybody is seen, everybody is heard, everybody is valued, and then these relationships are genuine and they do form and they do last afterward and I'm telling you, leadership is lonely.
Speaker 1:It is right, you are isolated.
Speaker 3:You guys, you, you guys lived it. It's not academic for you it's not like you read this in a book, right you? This is coming from experience, right, exactly, exactly, yeah, yeah, I mean I burned out as a pastor.
Speaker 2:There's a number of contributing factors to that, but I, I burned out as a pastor and never a number of contributing factors to that, but I, I burned out as a pastor and never thought I'd preach another sermon, uh, you know. So, at going through that and then beginning to say, katie, back to your point that a lot of what we teach people is how to deal or how to prevent. That is because of what I've learned, what what Lynn has learned in our own experience, of what I have found that helps me and how I can challenge people. Okay, what I do might not be the exact thing you do, but here are some things to look for along the way to make sure you put in some refreshment, to make sure you get recharged, to make sure you come apart, so you don't come apart, and so building some of those things into our ministry is critical.
Speaker 3:It's amazing that only God could take the wheels falling off of something and something falling apart and 8-2-8 it into. That's Romans. 8-2-8 for you biblically illiterate folks. 828 it and make it work together.
Speaker 2:I was wondering what you were saying, ted. He said don't worry.
Speaker 3:Okay, great Strike that I take it back. Edit Romans 828. God's working. He's going to make this work, and so the fact that you burned out and the fact that, like the wheels were coming off for you, is actually going forward. The Lord allowed that.
Speaker 3:He didn't have to, he could have stepped in and said, no, I'm going to keep my man from going off the rails, but he let it happen. And the beauty of what's happening. I'm sorry that it happened, but I'm glad it happened. It's just as bizarre because it's gone forward to touch others in the body of Christ. And that's how God works. He takes something that you would think. If I was to interview you at the time and say you think this is a good thing, you'd probably be like no, this is not a good thing what I'm going through, right now.
Speaker 3:But our God can take broken things. In fact, he specializes in taking broken things, specifically broken tools. He's the only only contractor I've ever seen work with broken tools and make masterpieces. That shows how spectacular he is is and he's worthy of praise because he works with broken tools. You ask any mechanic, any carpenter can you do what you're doing with if your song was broken? They'd like no, I can't. My tools need to be working right. But God takes broken tools and makes masterpiece, didn't sure? And I think he, and I think he enjoys using broken tools because it shows how spectacular, how awesome he really is. He's like using a perfectly fine tool is one thing, but we're going to use a broken tool and make something special with it.
Speaker 4:I heard this recently in a Bible study, just talking about, you know, our jobs as disciples, and it talked about how it doesn't end when we just come and we profess Christ and we're saved. He wants us to go out, he wants us to, you know, to go forward, but he also wants us to be a miracle in someone else's life. You know, and it's in Corinthians, you know, basically our hurts are for someone else's healing 's. It's all biblical, biblically based, and you know when we can look at it. And that's where that phrase really comes into. It comes into view when we count it. All joy in the midst of that. And you took that brokenness and turned it into something so other people don't have to be, and that's beautiful.
Speaker 3:It's a beautiful thing also for those of you listening. It adds credibility because you guys have been through it. You're not speaking from a book that you read You're like no, let me give you some real world experience from being on the other side of beat down. And when I say burnout it's not because, you know, I got my masters in it and I read about it, you know I went to a couple conferences and learned about burnout.
Speaker 3:No, I have the scars to show you. There's something different with credibility when you guys have been through it, so that's why that's another reason why when I went to, when I went to what your retreat, that I was more apt to listen, especially when you started, when you said I was there and you know I didn't. I didn't even know what was happening to me. And Lynn you said you're decompressing man. Yeah Right, because you were like what's?
Speaker 2:what's happening? What's going on here?
Speaker 3:man. Sure, that was my reenacting of it.
Speaker 5:That'll be another play, so that's important and as women walking next to our men yeah you know, as a gentle warrior, to try to be gentle with our husbands and yet fight. You know how do you do that how do you do that?
Speaker 5:and it is on our knees and being real with them. And I remember going to Scott and just saying, are you happy? Like, do you enjoy what you're doing? And it would always every time I love what I'm doing, I love preaching the word. But he looked like the walking dead to me, like he was emotionally flat, um, and so I was like, okay, and then I would come back, you know, maybe a few months later do you like what you're doing? Are you happy? I love what I'm doing. And so then it was like, well, maybe I'm reading him wrong. It's gets me behind me, satan. So I'm like I just let him go. I thought okay, okay, but he literally was at my fingertips, drowning, I couldn't reach him and, um, it's a scary place to be. As a wife, I don't have any answers other than it's real and it's scary and it's hard to wait for your men and but that's.
Speaker 5:We had the privilege of having an elder who saw it as well, and so he stepped in and, um, but a lot of people don't have you don't have that right, and so we would love refresh to be not a fix it, but just a, maybe just a gentle voice saying what your wife has been saying, or saying what your wife has been saying, or saying what your husband has been saying, or just God to use it as a gentle nudge, just to allow some of the noise to be gone for those three days so that you will hear the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 3:And nudging. Just to be able to turn the engine off.
Speaker 5:for me was and leaders don't know how to stop.
Speaker 3:I didn't understand the word no. No, I didn't completely get it. I didn't understand the power in the word no. That's a complete sentence.
Speaker 5:No, but Scott has been away from the pastorate for how many years now 18?
Speaker 2:18 years.
Speaker 5:And he still I think he has PTSD will walk in on a Sunday morning and he's in the pastor mode. And I'm like we're here to worship.
Speaker 3:You know, stop it, stop it. It's a gear shift. You have to okay, put it okay now, yeah, all right, and you don't even know you're on.
Speaker 5:You don't know, you do not as a leader, you don't, you do not as a leader, you don't even know.
Speaker 3:I think God wired us to a certain extent that we just we come on like the motion detector lights, you know outside some moves and okay, now we're in that mode.
Speaker 5:There we go, we're sure but I'm gonna tell you what. Mama Jackson's gonna speak here for a minute amen because there is an addiction to ministry that is unhealthy and you don't know if you're off or you're on. Somebody just said amen online and there's a difference of pursuing Jesus and pursuing the ministry. It is totally different and if you can't tell if you're off or you're on, you've got something going, that's off, it's off.
Speaker 3:Some people get so worked up into working for Jesus. They're not working with Jesus. There's a difference. If you're working, with Jesus Huge difference.
Speaker 2:Or are you?
Speaker 3:working for Jesus, Because when you're working with the boss there's a little difference, especially when the boss is a good boss and he's carrying the load and carrying the weight for you well, even you know, and I'm not I don't know if this is for me, not even as a ministry leader, but just as a child of god who wants to pursue jesus.
Speaker 5:Um, just this last year I have I felt more driven and it's not I'm trying to figure it out myself right now, but driven to be there enough to be there enough to be there enough to be there enough. And it's been driving me and I've been getting way too tired and just coming away just at this conference right now. The Lord's really gotten my attention with. Are you following me? Are you following Jesus? Are you being driven?
Speaker 5:to do more and it's very hard to self-examine on your own and I'm an outside processor, like I need to talk to process it. And when you can get away with a group six to eight couples, six to eight women there's time to process with other people. And because it's tricky, it is tricky and in leadership it's hard to turn it off. I don't know if it's hard to turn it off, I don't know if it's making any sense.
Speaker 4:Absolutely, it absolutely does, and I just want to say that all that you went through I'm sorry that you went through that, but that you both went through that, because I know, as Scott was going through it. Lynn, you were trying to be supportive and you were going through it as well. How can I be supportive to my husband when we don't know what's going on? But I want to thank you for being vulnerable to share that with the rest of us because because of that, as we discussed earlier, you know and, um, we have, we are better equipped.
Speaker 5:so I'm sorry it happened, but I thank you well and there's a place it's like okay, being angry at my man's not gonna move them. You know, being sweet isn't gonna move them. I just stick and dynamite. You know you've got to step back and then just say help and then see if God surround you with people or brings you to a conference or has an elder who steps in. It's tricky business.
Speaker 4:So I know you guys want to get on the road. Yes, but before Scott has something, he has something, no.
Speaker 2:I come back to something you said earlier, Ted. You mentioned about when you came or when pastors come to the Refresh Getaway. What's kind of their posture when they come? I'll call it that yes, All right, and often it's sitting with folded arms, just sitting back, kind of say okay, am I really going to take these people seriously?
Speaker 1:What are they going to be asking from me? Why am I here? Why?
Speaker 2:am I here and we have found that if we, if Lynn, talks to the wives, they come. They may come dragging their heels, their heel marks on the driveway and, you know, dragging their husbands to something like this. But then and your experience has been this but then you start seeing, okay, maybe the arms come down after the first session, this first morning, you know they see there's a little bit more that they can. Okay, they can start leaning in now and by the end of the second day, you know, we're starting to see smiles come on people's faces, we're starting to see people lighten up to where, the third morning, you know, there's laughter, there's interaction, there's no one sort of holding their wall up anymore, but they've kind of opened themselves up and we've seen that happen time and time and time again, especially for the pastors.
Speaker 5:And the wives when they come, like on a Friday night through Saturday or Monday through Wednesday, they look different. When they come like on a Friday night through Saturday or Monday through Wednesday, they look different. When they leave they come and they are look so weary and so worn out, but by the time they leave, the wives, they literally look different they're refreshed they are, and the men don't have their arms crossed and they're laughing and I think part of it is just recognizing what wow I'm.
Speaker 3:I thought, I thought I was the only one yes, it breaks the isolation.
Speaker 5:Wait a minute.
Speaker 3:There's wait a minute. They're going through something like, yeah, and so I remember listening to just people talking and just, and, and we have lifetime fellowship, friendship and just brothers and sisters now in Christ that were established there, and in part because for me I was like, wow, other pastors struggle with X, y, z, whatever it might be, and I'm like, wow, okay, and that's when the walls started coming down. Yeah, you know I'm not going wow, okay, okay, and that's when the walls started coming down yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, oh, I'm not going to be preached at, I'm not going to be thrown a bullet list of stop doing this and do that and things you should do. And I'm like, wait, and the thing that really got me was, dude, you just need to turn the car off, just turn the engine off and once.
Speaker 1:I was able to turn the engine off, I was like, oh wow, look, there's a cornfield.
Speaker 4:You know the place was great, yeah, no, I just wanted. I want to ask, as we wind down, um, so what's next for for Thrive Foundation? And or like, how can we support you, how can we pray um what's what's on your heart for that they they embrace each other Honestly not to just throw words out there, but we really truly are pursuing Jesus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we feel like we need to maybe adjust some things and shake some things up that we're doing. I mean, honestly, one of the most difficult things is getting couples to come, Getting couples to commit. You know we say six to eight couples and you think, oh, that's no big deal. To get six to eight couples to come to a refresh is hard. It takes a lot of energy and effort to get that many couples. I mean, I'm talking about inviting 60 to 80 couples to get 6 to 8 to come.
Speaker 5:We were whining to our mentors about this. And he said well, that's 10%. I think you're doing pretty good. I'm like you're kidding me. 10% is good. I do not understand it, but I do think there's a lot of spiritual warfare going on.
Speaker 3:Yes, sure, yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 5:I think there's a lot of spiritual warfare going on and we applaud those who can fight their way through it and get there, because it is hard.
Speaker 3:If I was on the enemy's's team, I would be doing everything I could to stop the pastors from going there, and the wives yeah.
Speaker 4:I will be trying to keep that top of mind too as we talk to people, because I know pastors like to plan. You know we're at the beginning of the year. Think about you know if you're having something in the fall. You know, I just want to put this on your radar, you know, and we will do everything. We will keep that in prayer for you. Your continual pursuit of christ and um and, and god knows how he wants this formed and he's going to answer that for you and whatever those answers are, we're going to be praying for that.
Speaker 5:Yeah, you guys and I do want to say we live on support and our supporters give above and beyond so we are able to scholarship um couples to come and we're able to scholarship. I can't believe it just for the women to come to the gentle warriors you know we ask for a deposit and our supporters will cover, cover the costs for the, the lodging and the rooms, which is so beautiful it's so beautiful amen.
Speaker 2:It's unbelievable yeah, we're astounded and we've got lifelong friends with you guys. Yes, I mean, that's part of it for us. You know, we look at what's going on. I I looked around the room and there I don't know how many couples are in there that have been to our refresh getaways, not looking to say, oh, look at all these people that have come to our thing, but it's people that we've developed friendships and relationships with over the years because of what god's enabled us to do and allowed us to do.
Speaker 4:So it's, it's a really beautiful your friendship with us is is precious I always say that in in ministry in general, that god keeps introducing us to more family, and that's how we truly look at you guys, oh us to you.
Speaker 5:We call you our kids.
Speaker 3:Amen.
Speaker 5:Lord, support these kids. Help these kids get more financial support.
Speaker 3:Amen to you listening right now.
Speaker 2:Support this.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 2:Plays on word ministry.
Speaker 3:Scott and Lynn Jackson, we will put links in the show notes. So if you're listening to this now, we will put links in the show notes. So if you're listening to you guys, if you're listening to this now, we'll put links in there that you could send to your pastor. So if you guys heard this and you know your pastors listen, they need your prayers, they need your support, but some of you listening your pastors right now need to refresh. Some of you listening your pastors right now need to refresh. They might be putting a smiley face on and looking like everything's fine, but they might need to refresh. And maybe it's up to you to forward on this information. And if you can't find it, just give us a call, reach out, send us an email something, send me a text and we can put you in contact with these guys and for those pastors where everything is fine.
Speaker 4:let's keep it that way. Come out to refresh.
Speaker 5:You don't have to be falling apart at the seams to come to refresh.
Speaker 3:The engines that last the longest are the ones that have maintenance done.
Speaker 1:Change the oil Change the spark plugs.
Speaker 4:Change the belts, that's right. You don't want to Change the belts, that's right.
Speaker 3:You don't want to wait until the check engine light's on and you're 300 miles from home.
Speaker 5:Yes.
Speaker 3:And unfortunately many pastors are like you know. The dashboard's all lit up and they're like well, I can still make it another 50 miles. This is hitting a little too close home for Katie.
Speaker 4:Too soon, dude. We'll link to that podcast. Our truck broke down. It's a whole other story.
Speaker 2:The wheels are falling off, is that?
Speaker 4:overshadowing. The wheels fell off. People are going to have fun with that.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for being on Plays on Word Radio Again. This is turning into a yearly event, so, God willing, if the Lord tarries and we're all alive, next year we'll do another interview, but maybe we can get another interview. I need to put you together with Pastor Cliff, the historian, and I will pay money to have you two in the same room and we can just talk Civil War.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that would be fun.
Speaker 3:We'll get our buddy Dave Locke on that too, and then we can just we can talk American history and Christ.
Speaker 4:Zoom is a beautiful thing. Yeah, yes, it is.
Speaker 3:So okay, guys, so next week we'll be back on the air, god willing, and thank you for being here for Plays. All World Radio Thanks guys Amen. Amen, amen, amen. Thank you very much, scott and Lynn Jackson. All right, you guys. Thank you all for listening. Till next week. The Lord bless you and keep you. The Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you. The Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace.
Speaker 1:This program was made possible by the Plays on Word family of supporters. To find out more, check out our website at
