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An in-depth look at the Word of God, the Plays On Word community, and the Plays - with original music - we perform, that are based on the Word of God. New episodes drop Fridays at 7AM EST! To find out how Plays On Word Theater can perform 'LIVE on YOUR STAGE' and to support this missionary & podcast visit: https://playsonword.org/
Plays On Word Radio
Ep 108: Empowering Spiritual Leaders on Stage and Beyond (Part 1)
"Did you know that ministry leaders can get burnt out from ministry? Today, we explore how pastoral leaders can find balance, joy, and even thrive in their service to God."
Thriving not only indicates surviving, but also flourishing. We explore how pastoral leaders can find balance and joy in their vocations through emotional support, self-care practices, and community-building efforts led by the Thrive Leadership Foundation.
• The importance of creating safe spaces for ministry leaders
• Personal stories highlighting the struggles of pastors
• The alarming mental health crisis among church leaders
• Insights on self-care and its long-term benefits
• The introduction of Gentle Warriors for women in ministry
• Strategies for developing flourishing community relationships
• Overview of Thrive Leadership Foundation's mission and programs
PlayGrounds section:
Recorded after our 'PETE' performance during the 2025 Pastors & Ministry Leaders Conference at America's Keswick Christian Retreat & Conference Center
Scott Jackson, CEO & Co-Founder (husband)
Lynn Jackson, Co-Founder, Partnership Development (wife)
Thrive Leadership Foundation
Website: https://thrivelead.org/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ThriveLeadershipFoundation/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thrivelead/
Are you a full time ministry couple that needs to be refreshed?
PLEASE click here: https://thrivelead.org/attend-a-retreat/
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Email us: team@playsonword.org
Lord you know. Hey guys, you are now listening to Plays on Word Radio. It's the best.
Speaker 3:The different aspects of emotion that you experience and that you show in front of us. You draw us right into the emotions of the situation, thinking about the reality of everyday life that they were living with Jesus. It wasn't just Bible story, it was just real life walking with Jesus. These are real people, real lives, real responses to different challenging, whether it's the waves breaking over the boat or the storm being flattened out. When he says he's still, you know, it's just, you captured that. For us, you're the only name, you're the only name.
Speaker 2:You're the only name.
Speaker 1:Hello and welcome to Plays on Word Radio, where we discuss, analyze, work and play on the Word of God. Thank you for joining us on this excursion. Today let's join Pastor Teddy, also known as Fred David Kenny Jr, the founder of Plays on Word Theater, as he does a deep dive into the Word of God.
Speaker 2:Amen, amen. Well, welcome to every one of you to Plays on Word Radio. We are back, Amen, back in the swing of things. We are Well.
Speaker 2:Also, did you guys enjoy our brother Mark Crabtree? I got a lot of good comments. If you enjoyed it, why don't you be part of that group and send me a comment, send me a text or email. Today we have something special for you Someone or a couple whom we've had on the program before, so they are friends of the program and I'm pretty sure you guys are going to be blessed. We had a chance to fellowship with them at the Pastors and Ministry Leaders Conference at America's Keswick at the end of January, and it's turning into an annual thing with us where we get together with them and interview them for the podcast for you guys. And of course, I'm talking about our dear brother Scott Jackson and our dear sister Lynn Jackson, his wife and they are the leaders of the Thrive Leadership Foundation leaders of the Thrive Leadership Foundation, and their website is thriveleadorg, if you want to check it out, or check them out on Facebook, thrive Leadership Foundation. They're on Instagram as well, and we are you know what. Instead of me just talking, let's get right into this.
Speaker 3:You guys are really gifted at this stuff, so what do you do when you don't have a?
Speaker 4:beard, now Child's lighter.
Speaker 3:You have no place coming up we try.
Speaker 2:We were told at a leadership retreat two years ago I believe it was, it was in October, I think and they told us to not overextend ourselves and work too hard.
Speaker 5:We're good students. We pay attention.
Speaker 2:Yes, implementation takes a minute sometimes, yes, and I've actually incorporated some of the teaching at our church and people are like, wow, you're so brilliant, so brilliant. I'm like I need to cite the source.
Speaker 3:I got this from Scott and Lynn, I heard some guy say it.
Speaker 5:No, we just thrive we.
Speaker 2:I got this from Scott and Lynn no we just thrive.
Speaker 3:We thrive you just heard some guy say it.
Speaker 1:This message was brought to you by the Thrive Foundation.
Speaker 5:And so no, but we take. January and February off from touring so that we don't get caught in snowstorms as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but Genesis Joe starts September and it runs to December and then December we do Christmas Joe to January and then we stop.
Speaker 4:So is this an exception?
Speaker 2:This is an exception yeah, so we didn't say no on this one. We wanted to do this, and so I usually am clean shaven for Genesis, joe. Anyway, we are here with Scott and Lynn Jackson.
Speaker 1:Not.
Speaker 2:Valerie, that's a whole other thing we'll explain.
Speaker 5:Now it needs an asterisk.
Speaker 2:And you guys. We have not had many return interviews, we just haven't gotten around to it yet we are at 100 plus episodes. Now we're past 100. But you guys, thank you for being on the program again. Grateful to be here. What a blessing to have you guys out. Time is short so we won't take up all the time, but I'd love to get, first of all, your take on Pete. You had not seen Pete, and now you've seen Pete Any? Thoughts. Do you have to say something?
Speaker 4:You are gifted.
Speaker 2:Praise the Lord.
Speaker 4:So gifted. And you, I'm telling you, you put your whole self out there and that draws the audience's whole self in. Beautiful, that's a great way to say it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's beautiful, yeah I love how you just you know you take us into the story and you incorporate us into the story just by the way you you draw us in. Whether we're responding or not, it doesn't matter, it's it's. You are drawing us right into the story of Pete and that's phenomenal. I mean, it's just unbelievable how you draw us right into the story and you draw our emotions out of us in the different aspects of emotion that you experience and that you show in front of us, emotion that you experience and that you show in front of us. You draw us right into the emotions of the situation where it's actually like, thinking about the reality of everyday life that they were living with Jesus. It wasn't just Bible story, it was just real life Walking with Jesus. These are people, these are real people, real lives, like Real responses to different challenging whether it's the waves breaking over the boat or the storm being flattened out when he says be still. You know, it's just. You captured that for us completely and I love that, love that.
Speaker 1:I had a pastor today?
Speaker 2:tell me he said I laughed, I laughed. And then he said and I cried, I cried with you too. And he looked both ways before he said it. He said I was crying too, I cried with you and I was like yeah, you know the woman who was bleeding for 12 years.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, those tears are real. When I'm doing that, that's someone is like how did you do that? Are you putting stuff in your eyes? I'm like no, I became her. After she recognized she was healed. I felt it. So that's the only time you'll ever hear me say I identify as a woman.
Speaker 1:Because it's not that kind of show.
Speaker 2:Anyway we'll edit that. Anyway, I didn't mean to cut you off.
Speaker 3:I like how you tie the 12 and the 12 in yes amen, how you make little ties with little things that so easily get overlooked biblically that I don't think are there accidentally. God deliberately puts those little ties in there for us, but a lot of times they're incidental, so to speak, that get missed over. But you draw those out.
Speaker 2:Just for our radio audience. Jairus' daughter was 12 years old and she was very sick and he came and fell at Jesus' knees and the woman that was overlooking this, who was not able to touch anybody who was bleeding for—she had been bleeding for the same amount of time that Jairus's daughter was alive. So that's what he meant when he said 12 and 12, and then the both fall.
Speaker 3:She fell at the knees, on her knees, at Jesus's feet, also just like Jairus and Jesus ended up saying.
Speaker 2:Part that really got me was where the extra-biblical part that some pastors taught about the prayer shawl you have to be some rabbis. Rabbis said it was a stonable offense if you grab hold of a Jewish man's prayer shawl and Jesus' response to her after she went and did. In that culture they would have been like she's not his family, she's not family and he says daughter.
Speaker 1:It's the only place in the scripture where he calls someone daughter.
Speaker 4:That's so beautiful.
Speaker 5:And.
Speaker 2:I paused on that. So there is a little bit of a teaching thing going on too. That's subliminal. Like you said, little things that you might just read past.
Speaker 4:But the way that you unfolded, that was so beautiful, so beautiful. When you said you know, Jesus said daughter.
Speaker 5:I was like wow.
Speaker 4:Just you connected those dots in a very tangible manner.
Speaker 2:For me. It's me, because I hear people go. Oh. So you guys anything else, stick out. You laughed, I know you laughed.
Speaker 3:You laughed? Yep, definitely laughed. I just think for me it was just feeling like I'm in the setting just feeling like I'm in the story there. It just really impacted me in a very direct way. I can't emphasize that enough.
Speaker 3:How you draw us right into the story with the way that you you've been gifted to tell it and with the way you put in those little things, even like I can't put the phrase back together. But it just had to say something. Yeah, you know keith's always doing that. He had mouth syndrome, just had to say something. So you know, as you put that in there, it was just like you know that just keeps drawing us along in the story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a beautiful thing for me to be able to just minister to a bunch of ministers, a bunch of people that are on the front lines. That was a blessing. Katie and I have talked about that, how it's just special for us to be able to, you know.
Speaker 3:Sure.
Speaker 2:Be some kind of blessing to the people that are always expected to be ministering to, and that is something that you guys are all about. That's something that you guys do. Can you? Just for those that might not have heard the episode, we'll put a link into it. They've been on the program before and I've sent this to pastors and I basically have said you need to go contact these people. If you want, I will contact them for you. It's always a challenge because pastors always find an excuse I'm doing the Lord's work, I'm busy. Can you tell us about what you guys do?
Speaker 3:We have the privilege of leading a ministry called Thrive Leadership Foundation that basically ministers to those in ministry. We shepherd the shepherds, we pastor the pastors. Not because we are anything great in and of ourselves. It's just what God has led us to over our now going into our 40th year of ministry, being married for 40 years, coming up this summer and just excited about what God's doing and the privilege that we get to speak into the lives of pastors who need a safe place to be able to share the challenges, the discouragements, the hurts, the ups and the downs of ministry of which there are a lot of those but they need a safe place and we become a safe place, whether it's over a cup of coffee or over lunch or on a Zoom call or at a retreat that we take them away to, just a place for them to get refreshed, get recharged and to actually thrive in ministry, not just survive. Too many pastors and ministry leaders and couples are just surviving in ministry. They're not thriving in ministry and our desire is that they thrive in ministry.
Speaker 4:Amen. And for us, because we have been in ministry, for it'll be 40 years this August, which I just can't believe that I don't feel old enough to say that, but apparently I am. We know the terrain and we know, we're familiar with the rocks that you know ministry leaders stub our toes on, where we stumble and fall and bleed and stand back up and stumble and fall and bleed and stand back up. And I think that because we can identify with that, people feel safe with us.
Speaker 4:I would say Because we've been there, we've done that.
Speaker 2:Many people look at pastors and people in church leadership and pastors' wives and it's just assumed well, they've got everything together. There's not a need for them to really be ministered to.
Speaker 4:You never think of that.
Speaker 2:You never think of the person that you look to as your pillar as needing help and absolutely heartbreaking. This past year, I know of more than one pastor that has taken their own life. I have no. I think you were the first person I texted when I when I got that information, I said I don't know how to process this man and and then on top of that, I have a very dear brother of mine, close to mine.
Speaker 2:It was a pastor and he had this he stepped down and the primary reason is because he made poor decisions, because he was burnt out. He was the you know there was wasn't one thing that just boom happened. It was a bunch of things that had that happened that and I I'm like man, I don't know, I hope I he was one of the guys I sent the thing you guys should. You should check. I think I did send the podcast we did earlier, right, but right, you know just that. Have you guys? You guys deal with that for me to see that I'm I have to process that.
Speaker 4:I don't do, I don't see that every day, but you guys, that's what your ministry is, that's so important we sit across the table from pastors and wives, uh, people who are in leadership, and we know that they are people just like us.
Speaker 4:They, we know that they're people just like the people walking down the street and that they have struggles. But we are still blown away because we will have these refresh conferences coming, where pastors and wives come away with us and we have them fill out anonymous, just three by five cards just to see where they're at emotionally, mentally, physically and spiritually. And time after time after time, we're seeing that many of them have thought about suicide, have considered suicide or fearful that their spouse has, and it is in the high numbers. It is in the high numbers and these are our spiritual leaders and we don't throw rocks at them but we want to embrace them and and be that safe place to just say this is where I'm at and it might sound scary, but it's scary to me for them to be able to share that. It's still surprising, you know, to us, and yet it shouldn't be, I guess. Yeah it's.
Speaker 3:it's just. It seems crazy when we hear it, but I think you know there's so much I don't know if pressure is the right word, but so much expectation I think is probably a better word upon people in ministry. There's so much comparison out there these days. You know, I don't believe social media is evil, but I think social media has contributed to a lot of this. I think the availability of seeing what's happening in other people's ministry and the comparison that goes on sometimes and for people in ministry we get almost addicted to ministry. Versus pursuing our relationship with Jesus and keeping close with Jesus, we become addicted to success and if we're not successful or if we're not as successful as someone else that we see, then we feel like, oh, what am I really doing?
Speaker 3:failure failure, I'm a failure, I'm not really doing the Lord's work. The reality is, and it's a simple statement so often I think we in ministry can get so focused on doing work for Jesus but not spending time with Jesus. I think that's a major challenge in thriving in ministry in ministry.
Speaker 5:No, I was just going to say that you know we endorse you guys wholeheartedly because, as many know from the last podcast, your last interview, that we have been blessed to have gone through Refresh, and you know I look and I am all for anything preventative. You know, and I just was sitting here thinking while we're talking, you know we get car insurance, we have roadside insurance, you know, but that's what you guys do You're like like spiritual insurance or something?
Speaker 5:But no, but you come alongside people so that it doesn't get that far and it doesn't, you know it doesn't get to the point where where life altering things are happening to you. You know the negative part of it. But also, since that that last podcast you implemented something new for the women and I was so blessed to go through that. You want to talk about that just a little bit.
Speaker 4:Yes, I'd like to say that our ministry is kind of growing another little branch and we're calling it gentle warriors, and that's for women who are in full-time ministry next to their husbands, or women who are single women who are in full-time ministry. And it's the idea of a gentle warrior. How would you explain it, Katie?
Speaker 1:You went through it.
Speaker 5:It's. You know there are a lot of aspects of refresh, but it's focused on the women in ministry and we're different. Women and men are different the women in ministry and we're different.
Speaker 3:Women and men are different and we think and we process differently and well they said that with the, the addiction recovery ministry here how they're writing different curriculum for the women's, barbara's place versus the colony of mercy, and how. It's different curriculum because you're dealing with men and women. It's different.
Speaker 5:And you know, as a pastor's wife, I absolutely love coming alongside my husband and doing my part. What I loved about this is that the focus was on on what I'm doing as a woman. I just, you know so many times, let's face it, women don't take time for themselves. We don't do that, and pastors have problems with that too. I just you know so many times, let's face it, women don't take time for themselves. We don't do that, and pastors have problems with that too. I have challenges with that too, but as a woman, we don't do that. And it was geared to how I think and how I process and it was just done with so much love and completely scripturally based and it was exactly what I needed and I still go back to some of those points and also gentle words and also refresh, like I said, to prevent getting to that point where I'm burnt out and this is no longer something I want to do.
Speaker 3:Katie, that's where I found myself in pastoral ministry. Is I burned out? And coming back to the point you made a minute ago, teddy, it's like your friend who just recently resigned because he was burned out. It isn't one thing, it's a bunch of little things that aren't being taken care of. You know, as Song of Solomon says, it's the little foxes that destroy the vineyard and it's the little things that we don't take time in our own lives to address. One of the things that struck me recently is many churches say well, you know our focus, our purpose, you know it's to love God and love others, which is, you know, founded right in the greatest commandments. But I say to them it's love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor. And we stop.
Speaker 3:There's two more words there, as yourself, if we don't take care of ourselves and I'm not talking about being self-absorbed.
Speaker 2:I feel guilty doing it. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, no, no. I'm not talking about being self-absorbed. If you don't take care of self-care, soul care, jesus says you know, come unto me and I will give you rest for your souls. Scripture says often where we need to have soul care, we need to take care of our souls. It's just like when you get on an airline to fly somewhere and the flight attendants get up and they tell you all the safety instructions and everything ahead of time. And then they say you know, and when? If we lose pressure in a cabin, this mask is going to drop down. And what do they say? Put it on your favorite person first. No, they say, put it on yourself so you can help others.
Speaker 3:We cannot love others well if we're not taking care of ourselves. And so many people in ministry they'll say, well, I'd rather burn out than rust out. And I heard someone say well, why do you want to do? Either You're out either way. You know, let's not burn out or rust out, but it's take care of the little things so that we can truly love and care for those around us. We will not be as effective in anything we do if we are not taking care of ourselves.
Speaker 5:I think part of the challenge to what I love about both programs is it's not just, like you said, taking time out to take care of yourself, but a lot of people don't know how you know, because when we're in ministry.
Speaker 5:How many times has someone come to you with a problem or issue when it's not your own? You have focus, you know exactly. You can direct them to scripture and you can. You know you can show them the way. But when it comes to our own stuff in quotes, we don't know how. And you guys show us how, both programs you know, for couples and for the women, and it's just.
Speaker 2:That brings up something interesting. So I'm going to play the typical guy whose wife says, hey, we should probably go to this thing the typical, not just typical guy, the pastor guy this thing the typical, not just typical guy, the pastor guy I don't need. I don't need to go to another seminar and just give me a bunch of a bullet list of things I need to stop doing or need to not do. Is that what I'm going to run into if I come to the refresh? Am I going to be get a bullet list of just what? What can I expect if I go? I mean, I could probably answer that, but I'm gonna let you guys in. I'm playing the advocate here.
Speaker 4:Well, the idea is not to come and fill a notebook full of notes and to have every minute filled. The idea is to come and to stop, to slow down, to come as a child of God, not as a pastor and a pastor's wife, and to allow yourself to breathe a little bit. And we do have sessions, but hopefully they're short and sweet and we give you things to think about and to go and talk to your spouse about, and then you have some downtime to get refreshed and to get renewed.
Speaker 3:And I think to go along with that is it's a small gathering, so it's not like it's an overwhelming huge group of people. It's six to eight couples but it's the idea that as you start hearing other people's stories, you go like, oh, I'm not the only one that struggles like this. I'm not the only one that feels this way, because so often I think those in ministry feel so isolated because if they share with their congregation or if they share with their leadership team, they may lose their job and so Just for sharing the fact that they're human and they're feeling a certain way or they're dealing with something, exactly, exactly, and so to have them come to refresh and that's why we call it refresh.
Speaker 3:We want you to come and get refreshed. We don't want you to have a notebook full of notes that you're not going to do anything with. We want you to come and get refreshed and get recharged, or at least begin to learn how do, I do that.
Speaker 3:Because no one teaches us that, for the most part, no one teaches us how to continually get refreshed, and so Jesus teaches us that, for the most part, no one teaches us how to continually get refreshed, and so Jesus teaches us that he continually took his disciples away. Okay, we need to get away. I need to get away. He would say. Well, that sounds self-absorbed. No, that's called self-care.
Speaker 3:And Jesus modeled self-care, even of himself. In his humanity he modeled that self-carecare. He had to get alone with his father. He had to get away from the crowd to get in the boat. Let's go to the other side.
Speaker 2:He knew the importance of getting away to be able to recharge that was very impressive to me, what that impressed on me when we went. Now I'm going to speak as somebody, as an alumni, and it was very impressive. And do you normally see the guys come in and be a little wound up or whatever, be a little agitated? And then I know for me, my personal experience I was like, okay, I'm going to go, I'm going to go because I'm going to honor my wife, I'm going to try to love her as Christ loves his church. She really wants to go. So, okay, I'll go. I I'm going to try to love her as Christ loves the church, and she really wants to go. So, okay, I'll go, I'll go. And I went and I'm sitting there and it took me maybe a few hours, but then I was just like wait, I can relax. And I don't know if it was you or Scott, one of you was like you just need to relax.
Speaker 1:I think I even asked you guys want me to do a play for you, or?
Speaker 2:something and you're like no, no, no, you are not on.
Speaker 4:Right, you are not on.
Speaker 1:I was like wait.
Speaker 2:I actually. I can turn the car off for a minute, I can turn the engine off.
Speaker 1:Let me try it.
Speaker 2:And it was because it was a safe place and I was able to oh, wait a minute, wow, and some of the things that were reinforced, that you guys taught us and that we spoke about. It's great to be around other people Like I think of the relationships that we formed lifetime relationships with people at your retreat.
Speaker 5:I think that it's funny that you said that, because I was going to mention it too, and I think that's attributed to the fact that it is so intimate You're not in front of 200 people, which you know there's a place for that as well but because it's so intimate, we're at a conference right now at America's, keswick, for pastors and ministry leaders and some of the brothers and sisters that we met at both of your conferences. We, like you said, like Ted said, we have lifelong friendships with them and we picked up right where we left off. And it's because we came to a place together and we're all vulnerable together and we're able to take your core, the core principles that you gave us, and implement them. And I'm going to get teared up, it's just. It's just. It's a beautiful thing to see my brothers and sisters again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, amen to that. You know we are not done here. We're going to get into some more stuff. We have constraints, time constraints, on this radio program. We will next week, if the Lord tarries, we will be back with Scott and Lynn Jackson of the Thrive Leadership Foundation and I know you guys will be blessed with the continuation of this. So until then, the Lord bless you and keep you. The Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you. The Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace.
Speaker 1:This program was made possible by the Plays on Word family of supporters. To find out more, check out our website at playsonwordorg.
