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Ep 96: A Pastor's Journey of Divine Transformation - A Legacy of Faith, Melody and the Power of Love (Part 2)
"Do you need encouragement? You'll find it here today as we conclude our conversation with Reverend Joe Santucci of Hope Community Church, in Manasquan, NJ."
What happens when truth isn't tempered with love? Reverend Joe Santucci from Hope Community Church joins us to unravel this complex interplay, drawing wisdom from 1 Corinthians 13. Imagine truth as a booming gong that fails to resonate without the gentle harmony of love. We journey through the challenges of upholding truth without losing the essence of compassion, particularly when addressing impactful topics like sexuality. Guided by personal stories and the teachings of Jesus, we emphasize the freedom found in love that doesn't shy away from truth.
Engage with us as we discuss the art of genuine listening and empathetic dialogue. Instead of prioritizing winning debates, we focus on understanding, highlighting a memorable exchange between Deepak Chopra and an unnamed apologist to illustrate our point. Thoughtful questions like "How did you come to that conclusion?" serve as our tools to foster meaningful connections. Our conversation encourages you to embrace empathy and understanding, paving the way for deeper, more heartfelt interactions. Join us in exploring how speaking truthfully with love can transform our conversations and relationships.
Joe Santucci, Senior Pastor
Hope Community Church
https://hopecom.net/
The Very Reverend Joe Santucci's music: Youtube link; Amazon Music; Spotify
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Lord you know. Hey guys, you are now listening to Plays on Word Radio.
Speaker 2:It's the best.
Speaker 3:And you know this. We can have all of the truth, we can have his word down pat, but, man, if we don't love, what does 1 Corinthians 13 say? Well, we're noisy gum, we're clanging cymbal, it's not of any good whatsoever. And so we need to. Yes, we need the truth, but we need the love to go with the truth, and without those two, you know, we rejoice that God's Word says that it won't return void, and sometimes we get disappointed in that. We say things like I didn't make any impact. We have no idea how much impact we have had on somebody's life. You're the only name. You're the only name. You're the only name. Do you need encouragement? You'll find it here today as we conclude our conversation with the Reverend Joe Santucci of Hope Community Church in Manisquan, new Jersey.
Speaker 1:Hello and welcome to Plays on Word Radio, where we discuss, analyze, work and play on the Word of God. Thank you for joining us on this excursion. Today let's join Pastor Teddy, also known as Fred David Kenny Jr, the founder of Plays on Word Theater, as he does a deep dive into the Word of God.
Speaker 3:I was having breakfast with a dear brother who has his doctorate in apologetics and we were chatting about I will not mention this person's name a man who is kind of a part of a heads up a large ministry that people would know if I said his name and I won't say it. But he went to a conference one time that was held by this guy and he said he drove. As a matter of fact it was taking place in the Carolinas. He drove from Jersey to Carolinas to hear this guy and he stayed 20 minutes because he just did not care for the lack of love that was being portrayed by this person, the. You know, we have to be careful. We really have to love one another.
Speaker 2:And that doesn't mean compromise.
Speaker 3:Please don't misunderstand, not at all. But we have to love one another and you know there's, you know the old folk mass days of. They'll know we are Christians by our love. You know that's, it's true. You know they will. And again, I'm not talking about sex. Please don't misunderstand me when I say love, I'm not talking about you know what the world calls love, for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever should believe in him would not die but have eternal life. I mean God loved his sacrifice, his commitment to you and to me and to all your listeners. I mean it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable what God has done for us. But we've got to go there. We've got to be a part of the kingdom of God and experience this wonderful love and this wonderful relationship.
Speaker 2:That kind of brings up a question. This wonderful relationship that exists, you know. So that kind of brings up a question uh, did god in loving us? Is there any record of him ever compromising at all?
Speaker 3:not that I don't see any any compromise. I think that's what I know he's very certain he can't lie, he can't, he can't go against his word. So you know no, so that should be.
Speaker 2:That should be for us. I would think let me know if I'm wrong that would be an example for us in the sense that we can love but we do not compromise, particularly on the righteousness of God and the things of God and what God has said. I mean, like you said, he can't lie, he'll never compromise the word, so so we just put ourselves in those boots. Let's not lie and do not compromise the word. We can still express love, though, caring for some and agape type of love. That, ok, I'm going to love you in spite of how you treat me, and and I'm going to love you not because of you but because of God in me, because God is love. That's kind of what you're saying. We need to love people like that, you're saying.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's been a hallmark of yours, I know. 18 years ago you sat in my kitchen and we talked about we need to love each other more and that was the speak life speech you gave me. I remember that we need to speak life and we need to love people. I remember that distinctly.
Speaker 3:Anyway, I'm talking too much. I'm thinking of somebody that comes to Bible study whose daughter is gay. We've hit on some going through 1 Peter, and Peter is now through 1 John. I mean these writers, man, the scripture is clear about sexuality. So here I am, I'm faced. I love these folks. Do I want to?
Speaker 3:Is it loving for me to say here's the truth? Or is it loving for me to lie and say, oh, no, everything is okay. No, it's not okay, that's not love. Love means I've got to tell you the truth, because what did Jesus say? It'll set you free. Right, that's love. And they know my heart, they know I'm not. I love, I've met, you know, their child. I love, love their child.
Speaker 3:It has nothing to do with that, but the fact that we've got to be loving and truthful again with with the truth. Right, we just have to, we have to be that way. Um, I can't compromise it, and and, and, and. You know what? We really need to listen to the Holy Spirit on those things, to you know, okay, okay, how do I walk through this? You know, lead me here, and maybe I just have to keep my mouth shut, or maybe it's time for me to speak boldly. Whatever the case may be, we have to listen to the Holy Spirit, but we don't compromise and say oh no, you're cool, you know, because it's not cool, it's not cool at all. But again in the culture that we're living in.
Speaker 2:You know the laws say yeah, that's perfectly fine.
Speaker 3:Well, that's not what God's word says. And so, again, we come back to this idea what is we have to have that? I know this is getting a lot of, maybe it's being overdone a lot these days, but we need to have a biblical worldview, you know, we need to look at the world around us through the lens of the scripture. What does the scripture say, you know? So, um, yeah, it's, it's one of those things that that's love. Love is not saying oh no, you know, denying the truth.
Speaker 2:You know I can't, you know that's that's uh, heresy, really, yeah, so, so, and as we see the culture, the clash, the conflict between the culture, what the culture preaches, it's getting louder and louder. In contrast to what jesus said is truth, he says father, your word is truth. Jesus himself stood before pilot. Pilot was like what is truth? You know? Yeah, he's standing before truth, because a few hours earlier Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father, but by me. That was the upper room. So, yeah, that was before he stood before Pilate. He says in my Father's house there's many mansions and he ends up saying that he claims to be the truth.
Speaker 2:But we see this, we see this conflict, yeah, between the culture and the scripture. What do you say to and this is dude, this is legit throughout the entire world right now, what do you say to parents and loved ones, grandparents who are dealing with their grandchildren and their children subscribing to what the culture is preaching, as opposed? And it's an inverse relationship. So the more you subscribe to what the culture preaches, the less you have to subscribe to the word of God. The more you subscribe to the word of God, the less you can subscribe, can't have both. They don't intermingle, and so what do you say?
Speaker 3:yes, it's dark, it's darkness and light, and you can't have dark right what do you say to parents? What do I say? You know?
Speaker 2:there's a lot of people listening right now that are moving closer to the radio just to hear this answer, because they're in the middle of it right now.
Speaker 3:Don't be a jerk for Jesus. What do I mean by that? Wow, we both know pastors who have. We know pastors that have raised children. Uh, kids where you've got, um, and I'm not obviously I'm not naming any names, I'm not really even thinking of anybody off the top of my head but pastors who have raised kids and those kids have fallen away from christ. Uh, and and why? Well, one of the big problems, I think again, is legalism.
Speaker 3:If I'm going to be legalistic about something, again, there's a time to speak, there's a time to be quiet. Let the Holy Spirit lead you. And so, if I have, I mean the person I spoke to yesterday I shared my faith with my family. This is someone we've been praying for for a long time and we always have been very careful. Know, with we've, we've, and god just opened the door yesterday. Man, it was like boom, this is great, you know. And and I said to june, I said, man, don't, don't think your prayer is one of somebody in her family, uh, one of her siblings, and and it's. I said, don't, you know, god is, but that's what you're you're praying for. So what happens? Well, if I'm being a jerk for jesus, it means maybe I'm throwing Bible verses at them when I shouldn't. Maybe I'm being a Pharisee. We need to check Again.
Speaker 3:We come back to love, and again I'm sorry that I'm a product of the 60s, which I am but the point is that God is love. Wow, what is love? Wow, what a concept. You know we can have all of the truth, man, and you know this. We can have all of the truth, we can have his word down pat. But, man, if we don't love, what is first? Corinthians 13 said you know well, we're noisy, we're clanging cymbal, we're no, it's no, it's not of any good whatsoever. And so, yes, we need the truth, but we need the love to go with the truth. And without those two and we rejoice that God's Word says that it won't return void.
Speaker 3:So we know that when we speak it, especially if it's spoken in love, especially if it's spoken in love and sometimes we get disappointed in that, don't we? We say things like oh, I didn't make any impact, we have no loved ones. Please hear me. We have no idea how much impact we have had on somebody's life by speaking gently, kindly, lovingly, perhaps even harshly. We have no idea the impact that that's had in a good sense and so you know that'll be, hopefully that'll be a really cool time in heaven when the book gets open. You say, really, I, that person's life was impacted because of me, you know. But you know it's, it's one of those things. It's again, if you're going to be, you know, legalistic about everything and letter of the law, you know you got to really be careful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you, that was a great point, and the whole playing cymbals as audio engineers. When, when you use a ribbon.
Speaker 3:use a ribbon, mike ribbon mic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let me tell you recording. When I record my drums, man, the probably the most difficult thing to deal with are cymbals getting them recorded right, because they're just, oh, it's just a difficult opera. I've even tried lowering the cymbals, raising the mics, uh, and when I play, there's a studio drummer technique of not hitting the symbols super hard Like you're in a concert hall.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:So I've actually tailored my way. I play drums when I'm recording a little different than when I'm playing live, which is rare these days. But yeah, symbols are difficult, man, so it's. It's interesting. You brought that up because I said, wow, I got two audio guys here and the bane of our existence have been loud. Wow, I got two audio guys here and the bane of our existence have been loud, clangy cymbals, and that's the christian wearing the t-shirt. Don't be a jerk for jesus. Um, yeah, uh, you know, and running somebody over with bible verses and being and walking away happy like they did the right thing when.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly just bulldoze, bulldoze somebody who was just a sensitive wreck. You know we're. I think we're to be patient and the key, I believe, is what you said man listening to the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Sometimes he'll say don't say anything.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, and I and you know you've said a key word here, teddy, and that's the idea we need to listen. You know, one of the great things in apologetics, when you're going to share your faith, is we need to listen to what's being said. Um, what, what's? You know, how can I meet what this person is saying with what you know? But I have to listen to them. I can't. I can't be, which we oftentimes do. Our mind is spinning, thinking okay, what can I say? What can I say? As opposed to listening, listening to their heart and trying to meet them truly, you know, with a, with a solid answer, as opposed to, as opposed to winning an argument, and that's. It comes down to that. We're not talking about winning arguments, talking about winning souls yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, lots of yes.
Speaker 3:you know, I, I, there was a deepak chopra was on, I it was. I saw this on YouTube. There was some apologist, who I, who I don't know, and I'm glad I don't know, but it was some. It was a debate between Deepak Chopra and and this apologist, and the apologist did exactly what you said. He, he ran the boom, boom, boom, boom, boom and Deepak Chopra is just sitting there going when it was all over. I was like so the apologist spoke the truth, yeah, but did Deepak Chopra receive it? You know, I mean, that's the. You know we can again, as opposed to let's present it, let's listen. So what do you think of that? You know, where do you get your truth from? Where? Where? You know how, how do you come up with that? Uh, understanding, you know, I mean, ask the questions, don't that's a bombard great question too, uh, and and speaking the, speaking the truth in love.
Speaker 2:many times, that in love means you're just, you're listening to what they're saying because you're you're actually giving consideration and credence to. Okay, let me understand, let me understand you, rather than let me just load up my gun and blast you into smithereens. Let me hear where you're coming from and I think speaking the so, speaking the truth in love I the there is a component of that that is, using your ears, you're showing somebody that you actually consider where they're coming from, and they'll be more apt to actually digest what you have to say if you take the time to say you know what I hear what you're saying here.
Speaker 2:And then Another thing you said that was key, that I use many times one of the greatest lines you can use in a conversation with somebody who's not a believer, you can say so. How did you come to that conclusion Exactly?
Speaker 3:How did you?
Speaker 2:come to? How did you arrive at that conclusion? Absolutely you know, and a lot of times it's just regurgitated from hearing somebody else say it and they haven't really thought about their position, hearing somebody else say it and they haven't really thought about their position, and so now you've got an opening to to at least say okay, well, uh, you know, let's examine that for a second, you know.
Speaker 3:so it becomes it's culture. Speak, you know, I mean again, people hear things and they've never but they had. Do they think it through?
Speaker 2:all right, we're gonna do, we're gonna do a lightning round, okay here, I just want you to top your your head what comes to your mind.
Speaker 3:Favorite hymn I Surrender All.
Speaker 2:Favorite Christian contemporary artist. Fred Tenney Jr oh my goodness Favorite New Testament verse John 10, 10.
Speaker 3:I've come that you might have life, and then you might have it more abundantly. It's my life. Verse, life verse.
Speaker 2:All right, amen, amen. How about do you have an Old Testament verse that you like?
Speaker 3:Oh man, Old Testament verse that I like.
Speaker 2:Or Old Testament story. It doesn't even have to be a verse, it could be a story.
Speaker 3:I guess you know what. I guess Isaiah 53 would be my Old Testament verse about you know? Again, just the picture of the Messiah. It's a messianic prophecy, yeah.
Speaker 2:Amen, amen. Messianic prophecy. So yeah, amen, amen. And just just for just to see if you remember around the time you got saved 700, club ben kinchelow and them guys um, yeah, what was. Did you have a favorite song back then? Did the lord use any music back then for you?
Speaker 3:because I loved that old green baby or something you, you, you know because you took the picture. I loved Andre.
Speaker 2:Crouch. Oh yes, I mean the day you took that picture of us.
Speaker 3:I walked up in back of him, I knelt in back of him. He said I can't even see me. And I say every knee shall bow, every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord. And he turns around and he looks at me and he goes, man, he goes. I just re-recorded that.
Speaker 2:That's one of the biggest regrets of my life is not taking a photo with him when I was there. I just figured out he'll be around forever. I'll get one some other time. I remember snapping a photo of you and two greats man in my life Andre played a Sooner Very Soon. Two greats man In my life Andre played a Sooner Very Sooner.
Speaker 3:Back then man that was Lornell Harris was another guy that I liked a lot back then.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're going to close up. We're coming for a landing on this interview. We thank you, reverend Santucci. Where can we find information on Hope Community if anybody's visiting in the Manasquan area, um or New Jersey?
Speaker 3:Sure, uh, hopecomnet, hopecomnet.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:Our morning, our morning messages, are now there. Awesome, um and um. Yeah, it'll take you to YouTube, but that's, I post them there first and so the links to you know, are there so you can watch the morning messages there now. And, yeah, awesome, so we're actually doing some video stuff.
Speaker 2:Finally, Amen, All right. And now how about um sacred dance? Can we get that anywhere, online or you can.
Speaker 3:You have to go to.
Speaker 2:Let's tell them what that is Sacred Dance. That's a song, well, a song, santucci.
Speaker 3:Sacred Dance is a song. If you go to YouTube and put in my name, Joe Santucci, and put in New Day or put in Sacred Dance, you'll hear it comes up. The music is there. That's my jam You've got to go to. This is really terrible. What's the name of this site where we sell?
Speaker 2:our stuff through CD Baby.
Speaker 3:You go to CD Baby, you can buy the CDs there. The music is on. From what I'm told, it's on Spotify, it's on Amazon, it's on Apple. I think yes, it's on Spotify, it's on Amazon, it's on Apple, I think yes. So yeah, but I mean it's on YouTube Music, I think also.
Speaker 2:I think it's on YouTube Music as well.
Speaker 3:Well, I would imagine, because all those videos are on. They're all on YouTube. So that's why I say, if you go in there, that you know you can listen to the whole CD on YouTube.
Speaker 2:So check it out, check out Joe Santucci and check out the music and send him a note email, but, make it good, don't send him any hate mail, because he's been such an influence in my life. Yes and Reverend Santucci, will you close us in prayer?
Speaker 3:Oh, I'd be honored, father God. We thank you, lord, for new life, jesus. We thank you, father God, that you are the way, the truth and the life, and no one comes to the Father except by you. And we, just we give you praise and glory for that, for such a remarkable salvation, lord God, and I pray your blessings upon Ted and Katie, lord, as they continue on in this new journey. I pray for anybody listening, lord God, that if they don't know you, father God, that they will truly, truly consider you, they will look into you. Your word is clear. You said if you want to find me, seek me. If we seek you with all our hearts, lord, you said, we will find you and we give you praise and glory. So, father, we thank you. We thank you, lord, for what you've done. We thank you, lord, for what you're going to do. We give you praise, we give you glory and we ask it and we pray it all in Jesus' precious and holy name.
Speaker 2:Amen, amen. All right, you guys, until next time. The Lord bless you and keep you. The Lord make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you. The Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace, amen. Thank you, reverend Sanctuary.
Speaker 1:This program was made possible by the Plays on Word family of supporters. To find out more, check out our website at playsonwordorg.
