Plays On Word Radio
An in-depth look at the Word of God, the Plays On Word community, and the Plays - with original music - we perform, that are based on the Word of God. New episodes drop Fridays at 7AM EST! To find out how Plays On Word Theater can perform 'LIVE on YOUR STAGE' and to support this missionary & podcast visit: https://playsonword.org/
Plays On Word Radio
Ep 84: The Transformative Power of Faith (Part 2) - Jewish Journeys to Recognizing Jesus as the Messiah
"Today explore the courageous journeys of Jewish believers embracing Jesus, while discussing sensitive evangelism strategies and the power of biblical storytelling for faith. Have you ever thought about the difficulties in sharing the Gospel with Jewish audiences?"
What would compel someone to take a leap of faith that could lead to familial rejection or threats to their safety? Join us on this compelling episode of Plays on Word Radio, where we uncover the extraordinary journeys of Jewish individuals like Irving and a secretive Hasidic rabbi in Brooklyn, who recognized Jesus as the Messiah. We also contemplate how historical figures such as Paul and Gamaliel might have experienced similar life-altering realizations. With insights from organizations like Chosen People Ministries, we explore how Messianic Jewish communities receive support and eventually grow into independent congregations while navigating profound personal and communal challenges.
Discover the unique strategies Messianic congregations employ to share the gospel sensitively and effectively with Jewish audiences. These congregations bridge the cultural divide by contextualizing the message of Jesus in ways that resonate deeply yet respectfully with Jewish traditions and sensitivities. We delve into the significance of using the Old Testament in evangelism and carefully avoid symbols that could be historically triggering. The inclusion of Gentiles in these congregations highlights the beautiful unity and diversity within this vibrant spiritual family, demonstrating that faith transcends cultural and historical barriers.
Scriptural storytelling comes alive as we discuss the transformative power of plays in making biblical narratives more engaging and relatable. From Peter's declaration in John 6 to the poignant scenes of Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ", we reflect on how enacted stories can touch hearts and deepen spiritual understanding. Our session culminates in a heartfelt prayer by Rabbi Fred David Kenney Jr., expressing deep gratitude for the Gospel and the ministry efforts of Fred and Katie. We emphasize the essential role of prayer in supporting Gospel ministries, interceding for family members, and asking for more workers to join God's abundant harvest.
PlayGrounds Guest:
Rabbi Irving Salzman
Beth Messiah Congregation
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Lord you know. Hey guys, you are now listening to Plays on Word.
Speaker 2:Radio. It's the best.
Speaker 3:And so when he found out about my faith, and particularly when I was going to be immersed for my faith, baptized, he said Irving, they killed 200 people in my family and now you're becoming one of them. So he was greatly disturbed. He felt betrayed, he was upset, and I had similar experiences with my grandmother and a couple of my uncles. Anytime I'd come into the same room with them, they would leave the room in disgust. You're the only thing, you're the only thing.
Speaker 2:You're the only. Thing.
Speaker 1:Hello and welcome to Plays on Word Radio, where we discuss, analyze, work and play on the Word of God. Thank you for joining us on this excursion. Today let's join Pastor Teddy, also known as Fred David Kenny Jr, the founder of Plays on Word Theater, as he does a deep dive into the Word of God.
Speaker 2:And I've heard stories that there are a lot of folks, a lot of Jewish folks, that do come to the realization that Jesus is the Messiah, he's the one that the scriptures talk about. But, reverend Mike, he told me that he was in Lakewood, new Jersey, doing an outreach and some lady came up and I think she was part of the Orthodox Jewish community and she came up and she was very paranoid. She said would you guys pray for me? I believe in Yeshua.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 2:But I can't let my. She, potentially, is under threat, physical threat, yeah, her husband or whoever they you know she was afraid for her life, yeah, and they pray. But there's, there are, there's a number of people, a number of Jewish folks, that have come to know the truth, and I've gotten a lot of reports, even like from Israel. There are a lot of people coming to Christ. Have you heard anything? I mean, you deal right there with the Jewish community as far as the Messianic Jewish community, the ones that say, hey, we recognize Jesus as Messiah.
Speaker 3:I remember there was a rabbi, a Hasidic rabbi, in Brooklyn that came to know the Lord several years ago, probably about I would say probably about 10 years ago now. Well, I remember his name was Sam Rabbi Sammy. But he would actually go to there was a Jewish mission house in Brooklyn and he would kind of take a taxi and he wouldn't, you know, he would get out of his Hasidic garb, his clothes, his clothing, right, he would put on street clothes and he would go to this mission because he almost had to hide it and he was a rabbi in his community. So it's a real tough thing for those people. There's a lot at stake, because they would be rejected by their families, by their husbands and their spouses, like the woman was that spoke to you, or Mike, or whoever it was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it happens. I mean, we've heard similar stories, you know, in Islamic families. You know where somebody's like wait a second, this Jewish Messiah, this Jewish carpenter, guy from Nazareth, it's true. And they end up being isolated and alienated. One of the stories it's not confirmed, it's not in scripture, but it's believed by many scholars that Paul was indeed part of the Sanhedrin and you got to be married. You had to be, at least that's what was believed. And what happened to Paul's wife? Did she say I'm out of here? I mean, I don't know. It's like you think about what he had to deal with, not just from the chief priest.
Speaker 2:I do hope, though. I hope we're going to see Gamaliel. I have. I just I feel in my soul that he was open to the idea. He told the Sanhedrin you need to leave these guys alone. You're going to find yourself fighting against God. If they're right, if they're wrong, who cares? They're going to come to nothing. But if they're right, you're going to find, and I just think, can you imagine if Paul went back to him on the DL? I mean, he doesn't mention it, but I think I would try to go back to somebody that influential. I don't know how close he could have been to the rabbi, were they on first-name bases or, you know, was Paul just one of his students? You know, I don't know, but I've always hoped that we're going to see Gamaliel in heaven. And there is a tradition One of the early church fathers I forget who says that Gamaliel did come to faith in Christ. But that's extra biblical, so take it.
Speaker 3:Well, it's interesting. You know he is a very well-respected member of, you know, the Jewish community of the sages. He and actually every Passover in the traditional Haggadah, the booklet, the service manual that Jewish people use at the Seder, the Passover Seder. He's mentioned in that. So it would be pretty neat to get to heaven and Gamaliel's there. That would be amazing, that would be awesome.
Speaker 2:You're telling your family. And then you ended up with Chosen People Ministries going. How did you end up at Beth Messiah?
Speaker 3:Okay, good question. I was with Chosen People and then I actually had served for a period of time working under the man who was at that time pastoring Beth Messiah. He was a Chosen People worker himself. Chosen People Ministries was the organization that actually planted Beth Messiah Congregation from scratch. But at a certain point, in 2001, they decided to go independent. They wanted to call their own. They had enough money you know income to support a pastor of their own. They didn't need to be a mission-planted church any longer. They wanted it to be independent and you know. So. They were seeking people who you know. They were looking for somebody who would take them over, and they asked me if I would candidate, and I did. I remember I went there, I preached at a service and then some of the people recommended that I come and interview with the pastoral search committee and the elders, which I did and meet the congregation, and at the end of the weekend they had to vote for me and you know they approved me Okay.
Speaker 2:You know I might have gotten ahead of things. I mean, here you got saved, you recognized Yeshua and your life radically changed because now the Scriptures are being illuminated by the Holy Spirit in your life, showing you. I often think about what Saul of Tarsus was thinking in that three-year period when Jesus was explaining to him. Can you imagine when he thought about Isaiah 53? He didn't have the chapters, but he thought about that section, or he thought about Psalm 22, and was like wait a minute, whoa, wait a second. You know? And what was that? Like I know, for me it lit up and I wasn't even well-versed in the Hebrew Scriptures, I just grew up in the church. But when the Lord really turned the light switch on in my life, I was like whoa, wait a minute. Seeing the Scripture with the Holy Spirit is a totally different thing. You know he's showing you these Scriptures.
Speaker 2:I wanted to be a fly on the wall on the road to Emmaus when those guys were walking with Jesus. I used to think, oh, I wish I could just be a fly on the wall and hear that conversation as he opened up the scripture. But he put me in check on that. He was like you don't have to be a fly on the wall. You've the same spirit that showed them you, the same Bible study you can experience. You have access to that same teaching. Just get into the Word and God will show you. And it's like so. Did that happen with you? Did you end up going to seminary or something? How did you fit all your Jewish teaching into New Testament stuff?
Speaker 3:Yeah, very much so. It was just like eyes being opened. You know how he says in 1 Corinthians that they hear Moses every week, but the veil is on. There's a veil over their eyes. And it was similar for me. Not that I felt the veil when I was under it, but when I came into the light of Messiah and into faith in Him, it was like the veil came off. And so it was just wow, you know, it was so rich and so vibrant. And now you know, you see all these prophecies, but now you know the person in whom they are fulfilled and they are being fulfilled, and it was just an amazing thing.
Speaker 3:And in addition to that, you know, there were things that I studied in rabbinic theology that all of a sudden, I'm reading in Paul and I'm saying, wow, you know, that's in the New Testament too, you know. So there's one part, and I think it's in is it Romans? I think it's Romans. I believe it's Romans. I have to go back to it now, but I remember the first time I read it. It just really hit me where he said that if you give your members over to sin, it breeds further sin and lawlessness, whereas if you yield your members to godliness and righteousness, it yields further righteousness. And that very same theology, in different words, is there in rabbinic theology. So not that it came from rabbinic theology, but that truth came from somewhere and that truth is a God truth.
Speaker 2:Amen, amen, amen is a God truth, amen, amen, amen. I'm always amazed. I mean, it's not like we're coming from some separate left field religion. I don't know if it was a podcast or a sermon, but I talked about Jesus turning the water to wine. I said, you know, he utilized the old jars, the jars that held the water. He didn't have them back up trucks, water trucks or anything like that. He used the jars that were for the ceremonial washing and everything. But he made wine and a new thing from, from the old, but not disregarding the old. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:And and as far as the, the Jewishness of of faith in Christ, you know, christ is Jewish, he is from the tribe of Judah, he is, you know, so it's not a. Gentiles are added to what's going on and not the other way around, you know, and I just, I'm just passionate about that. So I didn't mean to cut you off, but so so you ended up at, you know, doing the, doing the schooling and getting into the Greek and looking at it and going whoa, hey, yeah, what was that like, yeah, I did go to Bible college and then went to seminary, so I do have a Master of Divinity degree.
Speaker 3:But you know, there was a woman she was actually married to Francis Schaeffer who was a famous Christian philosopher. Her name was Edith Schaeffer and she wrote a book called Christianity is Jewish and I thought that was a very interesting book for a Gentile Christian to write. But she was so correct about that, like, for example, here I am, you know, I had heard the gospel, I came to believe the gospel and then I see, you know, obviously the New Testament says Ephesians, chapter 2, verse 8 and 9, you've been saved by grace, through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Right. And then you know, I'm a new believer and I'm going back into the Hebrew Bible and I'm seeing Genesis 15, 6 say and Abraham believed and the Lord credited to him as righteousness. I'm saying, wow, this was in our Bible all the time and I never saw that. So it was really like my eyes opened up to see all that Praise God.
Speaker 2:I mean that's awesome. I just love hearing stories like this. And now you're serving him and what would you say are some of the differences? For those that are listening right now might be like well, I don't know what is a Messianic congregation. What's the difference between that and my Baptist church or my Methodist or whatever it might be? You know, maybe talk to that a little bit.
Speaker 3:Absolutely A good Bible-believing church.
Speaker 3:I always tell our people and I always say this to people who ask me that I say listen, we are brothers in Christ, we're brothers in Messiah, we're one family. There's no second-class citizens of the kingdom of God. But I guess the impetus for Messianic congregations came out of the fact that unsaved Jewish people, people who don't know the Messiah, don't know the Lord, who've not heard the gospel, they're unlikely to walk into ABC Baptist Church on Sunday because in their minds they're thinking well, it's good, it's a house of God, but it's a Gentile house of worship. It's really not for me. And so Messianic congregations we take the gospel and we try to contextualize it to a gospel, to a Jewish audience, so that it'll be relevant to a Jewish mindset, it'll disarm Jewish objections. We try to take away as much offenses away, right. So, for example, one thing that you might not see in a Messianic congregation and you didn't see it. You didn't see it on our front wall, you didn't see this huge cross.
Speaker 3:Now, there's nothing wrong with the cross, it just happens to have been the object by which Yeshua was killed. Jesus was killed right, and his death was prophesied and he had to die for our sins, right. So it was not the manner of death. That was the important thing. The important thing was that he died. He shed his blood for us, right? So now the reason that we don't have a cross, even though we appreciate the fact that by it our salvation was purchased. On the other hand, when Jewish people see the sign of the cross, they think of the persecution that's been committed under that sign, right, yeah, yeah. So you might not see, you know, I might not go up to an Orthodox Jew and have this huge cross hanging around my neck, because I try to minimize the things that are offensive in my witness to them.
Speaker 2:Hey, and before any of you listening get any ideas or have a huff and puff, you know that's exactly what Matthew did when he wrote his Gospel. His Gospel was tailored to say this is what was written by the prophet. So a Jewish audience would have said oh okay, you know, this makes sense. So what you're doing is basically what Matthew did when he wrote the gospel.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, excellent excellent, that's an excellent point and that's so true. Like Peter, when he shared the gospel with me, for a year he stuck to the Old Testament, knowing that. You know, that's my Bible, right? So if I'm going to listen to anything authoritative, I'm going to listen to my own Bible. So, yeah, I think that we need to remember that in our witness. I mean, if you're sharing the gospel with somebody. One of the presentations which you've probably seen, the Romans Road. It's a presentation of the gospel using scriptures from the book of Romans, primarily, you know, for the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God for all have fallen short of the glory of God. Right, and those are all true and we hold up those truths. We believe that the New Testament is completely divinely inspired. The average Jewish person doesn't. So if I'm sharing the gospel with a Jewish person, I'm going to share something that he considers, or he or she considers, authoritative.
Speaker 2:I often say when we're sharing with the gospel or when we undertake any type of evangelistic expedition, like your friend did. What was his name, the guy who shared with you for a year on the phone? Peter, peter. Like Peter did, we need to be careful and make sure we're sensitive to reach and not repel, in the sense that the gospel itself is offensive enough to an unsaved believer, to somebody who doesn't know Jesus. The gospel message is an offense. It's offensive enough as it is, so we don't need to add to it.
Speaker 1:Let's not add to it.
Speaker 2:Let the gospel be the offensive part. But I don't want to pile on and it's just wisdom. If you know that the cross is a trigger for somebody to put up a wall, I don't want that wall to be there. I'll remove the cross, right. You know we'll get to the cross in the message, but you know there's no reason to add to the offense. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 3:No, I say it exactly the same way. You just do it the way you said it. I always say that to my people. I always say you can't get away from the fact that the gospel is an offense already. Scripture says that. Scripture says it right. But let's not add or, as you say, let's not pile on to that offense. Let them deal with the offense alone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because we're going to have to answer for that. I mean, god's going to be like listen, you didn't have to make the wall 10 feet high. The wall's already high enough for them when you start talking about me. So don't add bricks on top of the wall. And unfortunately, by our approach, some people went very well-meaning, but if you're not prayed up and following the leading of the Spirit of God, then you can end up adding bricks to that already big wall. That's an offense that people to get over. Now another question about Beth. The Messiah is so okay. Jewish, sensitive to our Jewish brothers and sisters. How about Gentiles? I noticed there was some Gentiles in the congregation. It's not an all-Jewish only thing. This is a group of people that love Jesus.
Speaker 3:Yes, I agree.
Speaker 2:And so I don't want to say I was surprised. I kind of expected that, because James, and let me know, and uh, but maybe talk about that man, it's you know, it's everybody invited yes, everyone is um.
Speaker 3:As a matter of fact, you know, our demographics have changed over the years. I remember when I first came to the congregation I would say at that point it was probably 75 percent jewish demographically okay. Today I would say at that point it was probably 75% Jewish demographically Okay. Today I would say it might be 25% Jewish. It's the other way around, okay, and maybe up to one-third. I know just this past week we had a Jewish young man who was attending the last few weeks and he just gave his life to the Lord the other day. Amen. Amen to the Lord the other day, amen.
Speaker 3:But we welcome everyone and I was just telling my congregation this past week that we're really an Ephesians 2 congregation because we show Jews and Gentiles worshiping together as one new man and I always tell them nobody's a second-class citizen here. We welcome everyone, we do not discriminate. God wants all peoples to be reached for Messiah Yeshua. The only thing in a Messianic creation is that we do so in a way that will not repel, as you said. I like your word repel. We don't want to repel, we want to reach. Exactly, yeah, your word repelled. We don't want to repel, we want to reach. We want to reach yes, exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that brings me to a question what would you say to somebody who might be Jewish right now listening to this podcast, and what would Rabbi Irving say to them? Maybe they're on the fence, maybe somebody shared the gospel with them, but they're afraid to even entertain the idea. What words would you have for them as a person of Jewish heritage?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I could certainly. First of all, I would say I can certainly appreciate their fear and anxiety and I can certainly appreciate that. So there's no condemnation over that. We all probably have a little bit of anxiety when we think of what you know, the potential wedges it might drive in our family relationships and our work relationships. You know, nobody wants to, you know, ruffle anybody else's feathers. So we almost anticipate that there may be a cost, right? Sometimes there is a cost when we become disciples. Sometimes we have to carry our own crosses too. So I totally understand that.
Speaker 3:But I think that I always go back to what Peter said in John 6, where Jesus has just gone through a very difficult teaching. And it says that— Darrell Bock, it's a hard teaching. Who can accept it? Hard teaching, right. And it says disciples, without the words in quotation marks, but I'm putting them there because the disciples began leaving him in droves, right. And so he turns to the Twelve and he says You're not going to leave me also, are you? And Peter says no, lord, because you have the words of eternal life. And I say you know, if you weigh it, if you weigh that, we have all eternity with God Forgiveness, redemption, forgiveness from sins, an eternal relationship with the God of heaven right. Eternal relationship with the God of heaven, right. And you know if that means that I might have some difficult relationships now with people who don't appreciate that I'm a believer, you know, so be it.
Speaker 3:But I know that my eternal destiny is secure.
Speaker 2:Amen, so they should be encouraged. Yeah, and we're going to put a link in the show notes. So put the rabbi's link in there and if you need to get a hold of them, you'll be able to put a link in the show notes. So put the rabbi's link in there and you need to get a hold of them. You'll be able to get a hold of them and further on conversations if you want. And so that's encouraging. How would you?
Speaker 2:We've run into some issues where it's hard to describe what we do and when we had our initial conversation on the phone, I remember I described. I said I don't know how to describe exactly what you're going to see, because words don't really explain how the Spirit of God moves among the people, the audience that are watching the play and we're all part of the scripture movement that's going through when the Pete play is going on or any of the plays that we do. What would you tell some pastors that are considering having plays on word come out or possible rabbis? I prayed in the beginning of the year. I said, lord, can we do a synagogue or a messianic congregation, something? And he answered a prayer with you guys.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I would tell them, I would recommend you in a heartbeat, I just think. Number one your presentations are very faithful to the Scriptures. It's not made up of backstories, as interesting as those might be, and I think you probably know what I'm talking about. Yes, yes, yeah, but yours is faithful to the Scripture and you know we could read the words and obviously the Word is inspired and obviously the Word builds us up and converts us and brings us to faith and encourages us. So this is not an aspersion of the Word. Obviously I would always recommend the Word, but sometimes— there's a way that an enacted story can really make it come alive.
Speaker 3:You see things that you might not otherwise have noticed, or you almost forced us. When you're acting these things out, you're forcing us to look at ourselves and how we would have handled that right, which is really an amazing thing. And there was a movie a few years ago and I know that some people liked it, some people didn't like it, but I actually did like it. It was Mel Gibson's film, the Passion of the Christ, and I remember seeing that and I actually liked it, and I'll tell you why when you saw how much he went through at the hands of the. You know his roman, you know those roman soldiers, the beatings that he went through. I mean, we could read that in the new testament, and it's the sanitized version. It sure is. But you see, when you see what he actually went through, for me, yeah, for us it just makes you appreciate His grace all the more. And so that's why I would heartily recommend you, because your presentations are absolutely scriptural. They're beautiful, they add humor, as we mentioned before.
Speaker 2:And the Scripture's funny man. I mean, especially when Peter says Lord, if that's you, tell me to come to you. And Jesus says come, what do you do with that? In the play Peter looks at the audience and goes and then he gets out the boat. But I mean the scripture is loaded with. There are things that are just the irony kicks in where it seems humorous. I think about Haman and the servants. In the book of Esther. The servants tell the king after everything goes down. He's like will he even accost the queen on my couch? And the servants are just sitting there. Like he does have a gallows that's built. He was going to hang Mordecai on it. But that's funny, it's comical. I mean just the way he thinks God's sense of humor it's funny, it is. And I get such joy out of just going through the Scripture and when I read God willing, we're going to come back and do Genesis, joe, for you.
Speaker 3:Yes, I want you to, and I also want you to come back and do a Daniel 2, by the way.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yeah, that's going to be We's. We have a small paul play right now. It's small, we're going to blow it out to a full length. It's maybe 20 minutes. He's, paul is in prison and he's writing second timothy and he looks up and the audience are the guards that are guarding him. And he looks to the guards. He says you're probably wondering how I ended up here on death row, why I'm writing another letter to Timothy. Let me tell you, almost 30 years ago I was in Jerusalem and the Sanhedrin was convened and they bring Stephen out and that's how he starts telling his story. So, yeah, we do Paul, that's a small. We have an Adam play also. That's maybe about 20 minutes and uh, yeah, that's, that's cool. We're not going to blow that out to a full length thing, but we keep about 20, 25 minutes.
Speaker 2:Christmas Joe started out as 15 minutes long and ended up now it's about a half an hour as far as the play part, and then we do a concert around it. So with hymns and songs, and in Christmas Joe the audience are the shepherds that just came to tell their story. So in every play the audience plays a role, the audience like you. I think you really appreciated when Peter would say to the audience hey, those of you that were there you remember, you guys remember, right, you remember. And I see people that have read it in the scriptures start nodding their heads like, yeah, I remember when he fed that 5,000. Yeah, I remember, I remember I was. In a sense, they were there. So well, rabbi, thank you so much for joining us on Plays on Word Radio, my pleasure.
Speaker 3:My pleasure. Fred, it was my pleasure.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you for joining us. This is just such a blessing to me and all the people listening. No doubt we look forward to coming back, making our way back to Livingston, new Jersey. We're going to put links in the show notes, link to the church, their website, and you'll be able to. If you want to reach out to the rabbi himself, you can reach out to him directly and just praise, if anything. Stay in prayer for this congregation, pray for the Messiah, for Yeshua, because that work is something everybody with ears right now listening can do. That's something everybody can do. You can pray and intercede on behalf that the Lord would remove the veil, yes, and that family members would indeed come to Christ. I mean, the harvest is plentiful, the workers are few yeah, the harvest is plentiful, the workers are few, yeah, the harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few, and pray to the Lord at the harvest, and so you guys, I would encourage you to pray. Rabbi, why don't you close us out in prayer?
Speaker 3:And let me thank you so much, fred, for having me today and for coming and blessing us, and we look forward to having you again, and I pray that today was an encouragement and blessing to your audience. So, father, we just thank you, lord, for the truth of the gospel, that you saved people like us, that you opened up the meaning of your word and that you enabled us to see that Yeshua is the only hope for mankind, the suffering servant, the Messiah, the Savior of all who would put their trust in him. Thank you, lord, for ministries like Lays on Word and for raising up people like Fred and Katie. And Lord, to bring the scriptures to life, to minister to us, to encourage your people, father, god, and to bring the gospel to people who might not ordinarily hear it. I pray that you would be a blessing to their ministry, that you would use them mightily to encourage your people and to bring others to the Lord and Lord, meet their financial needs. Lord, just watch over them and bless them. I pray in Yeshua's name, amen, amen, amen.
Speaker 1:Okay. This program was made possible by the Plays on Word family of supporters. To find out more, check out our website at playsonwordorg.
