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An in-depth look at the Word of God, the Plays On Word community, and the Plays - with original music - we perform, that are based on the Word of God. New episodes drop Fridays at 7AM EST! To find out how Plays On Word Theater can perform 'LIVE on YOUR STAGE' and to support this missionary & podcast visit: https://playsonword.org/
Plays On Word Radio
Ep 52: Unwavering Faith (Part 2) – The Story of Armenia Resilience and Spiritual Epiphanies
"Come join a conversation enveloped by the aura of heritage, a tapestry woven with threads of survival and faith. Our discussion is one deeply rooted in history, personal anecdotes, and rich with the resilience of the Armenian people."
PlayGrounds section:
Today's PlayGround section was recorded after our 'CHRISTMAS JOE' performance.
Wilma Cholakian
Armenian Martyrs' Congregational Church
Havertown, PA
Website: https://www.amccpa.org/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amccpa/
Armenian Mission Association of America
https://amaa.org/
As I sat across from Wilma Cholakian, I couldn't help but be enveloped by the aura of her heritage, a tapestry woven with threads of survival and faith. Our conversation, deeply rooted in history and rich with personal anecdotes, traversed the resilience of the Armenian people during and after the genocide of 1915. Wilma, an esteemed member of the Armenian Martyrs Congregation, recounted her family's unwavering devotion to their Christian faith and Armenian identity despite the shadow of atrocity. The narrative unfurled to reveal her father's scholarly pursuits at St. Paul's College and her grandmother's proficiency in English, courtesy of missionary education—a testament to the indomitable spirit of their community.
The second half of our dialogue turned toward post-WWII life in Aleppo and the formidable task of steering Haigazian University through the Lebanese Civil War. Amid the clatter of church bells that rang in both Armenian and Arabic, we shared a moment of epiphany, a realization of faith forged in the fire of life-threatening situations. It was a glimpse into the profound spiritual awakenings and daily dangers that colored this turbulent period. Then, as we discussed the close-knit fabric of the global Christian community, it became clear how serendipity and divine intervention intertwine our lives. As our time together drew to a close, I was left with a deep sense of gratitude for Wilma's insights and a renewed anticipation for what is to come.
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Lord, you know you listen on the place of word. Radio is the best. Every day that I left my home, I did not know whether I would end in a morgue, in a hospital or be able to return home. But then, all of a sudden, I realized God's work in my life. Despite of all these dangers, despite of all these threats, despite of all these anxieties, I did not end in those places. I was still able to help because God told me you're going to stay safe, because you still have a mission for me. This is what I guess I'm doing.
Speaker 3:Hello and welcome to plays on word radio, where we discuss, analyze, work and play on the word of God. Thank you for joining us on this excursion. Today let's join Pastor Teddy, also known as Fred David Kenny Jr, the founder of plays on word theater, as he does a deep dive into the word of God.
Speaker 2:All right. Thank you very much, katie Kenny and Josh Taylor. Welcome back to plays on word radio everyone. Yes, we're still in 2024. Last time I checked Last week we were with our brothers and sisters from the Armenian martyrs congregation in Philly and we're going to continue. We didn't have enough time to pack it in, but I had the opportunity to interview Wilma Trolakian. I hope I said that right from the church there and I think you guys are going to appreciate this continued interview. We're also going to put the extended interview. I'll put a link up there for you guys to check out the extended interview that we didn't have time to squeeze into this. But, yeah, check out one. She got something to say here. Plays on word radio. We are here. Tell me your name.
Speaker 1:My name is Wilma.
Speaker 2:Trolakian. Okay, and we were talking earlier. We're at Armenian martyrs church in Pennsylvania. You were telling me about your, some of the history. Yes, the about your, your, your family. Let's rewind to 1915. Yes, and I'll let you. Of course, world War One was going on, but tell us about 1915 from an Armenian perspective.
Speaker 1:From an Armenian's perspective, we have, first of all, we call all the southern part of Turkey historic Armenia, because there are very, very many towns and villages, and until now, for example, now that I am second generation of the genocide, when they ask me which town are you from, I identify with the town of my father in native Armenia I am Zeytunzi. I am from Zeytunzi and I, my mother, was from Marash. Okay, so this is the way I introduce myself, rather than I am girl born in Aleppo, syria. And then the other thing about us is that, in spite of the genocide and the deportation, we have lived in the diaspora, but we have always kept our Armenian identity.
Speaker 1:This is very interesting because when, in 1968, when I came to do my graduate studies in Boston Massachusetts, people used to ask me what nationality do you have? And I would say to them yes, and they would say Italian. I would say no, and then I would say I am Armenian, and then they would say do you have an Armenian passport? I say no, I have a Syrian passport because I was born in Syria. And then they would say then you are a Syrian. I would say no, I am an Armenian Because we have lived abroad from our country, but still maintained our identity, yes, brother, and still maintained our faith. So both my families from Zeytun and Marash were evangelical. They had turned into evangelical and they had gone to missionary schools.
Speaker 2:OK, and this is because missionaries came to Armenia.
Speaker 1:Because missionaries, when they came, as I said, in the 1800s to Turkey to convert Muslims into Christians, that was the Ottoman Empire.
Speaker 2:Ottoman Empire, so what?
Speaker 1:It is forbidden to talk about Christians to Muslims. It's criminal. Even you can be killed for it and be justified. So in a way, they found out a huge community of Armenians who were Christian, making the sign of the cross, singing the liturgy, but they didn't know how to read and write. Even their pastors. They had the Bible in their pockets. They used to priests. They would take the Bible out of their pocket, kiss it, put it back in the pocket and that meant you are a Christian. Wow. So in a way, the missionaries changed their goal. They said instead of converting Muslims into Christians, we want to educate the Armenians to know better the religion they follow. Because they couldn't read? Because Armenia is the first country that has, as a government, turned into a Christian faith, the first.
Speaker 2:Christian nation 300. Yeah, in the 300.
Speaker 1:Wow. So what they did was this is very interesting is that they started schools and they started teaching Armenian kids how to read and write schools. So, and then what they did was they printed certain sections of the Bible and distributed to the people to be able to read the religion, the Bible, that they read.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:But they learned about the psychology and the mentality of the Armenians, which is very interesting, that they valued things when they paid for it. So what? They found out that when they printed these pamphlets and distributed it indefinitely, it went into the garbage. Oh, Because they were not paying for it.
Speaker 2:Oh, there's a lesson in economics right there.
Speaker 1:So, but when they started, a small sum of money to pay to get this pamphlet.
Speaker 2:Oh, that has value this is interesting.
Speaker 1:I wanted to tell you that. So my mother, my grandmother, used to say my grandmother spoke fluent English. Oh Because and my father you know what? My father was a graduate of St Paul's College, tarsus. I have his degree. You got to be kidding me, really. I have his degree.
Speaker 2:Wow, I will show you his degree. That's something there, wow.
Speaker 1:My father went to St Paul's College in Tarsus.
Speaker 2:That's incredible.
Speaker 1:My father has a degree from St Paul's College and my grandmother is a graduate of the Women's College in Marash.
Speaker 2:So my mother Education has been very important to your family.
Speaker 1:My grandfather was a pharmacist, my great-grandfather was a doctor, and all of them were massacred during the Senor's site 1915. No, oh no. Then this is another thing that happened. My grandfather being a pharmacist and educated, he was in the Turkish army during the First World War.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:So he was placed in Palestine as a soldier.
Speaker 2:Okay, my grandfather.
Speaker 1:At that time, my mother was born and my aunt was born and my grandmother was pregnant for her third child. She delivered the daughter in Salt, palestine, and then they were relocated in Damascus, syria, in 1920. The 1915 is the initial date.
Speaker 2:That's when it started.
Speaker 1:Yes, but my grandfather was still in the army, as an educated person in the army. So when the war was over, they still had farms. He had his pharmacy. Okay, his father had his doctor's office in Marash. So on his way to Marash it is via Aleppo he meets one of his friends pharmacy friends who has already opened the pharmacy in Aleppo. And that friend tells him don't go to Marash, come, we can join together and open the pharmacy in Aleppo. And my grandmother says at that time they were educated. What are we going to do with these ignorant Arabs? Let's go to our town. We have our pharmacy, we have our location, we have everything. So this was the wrong step that they took because after the war after 215, they returned to Marash.
Speaker 1:My parents were massacred in 1920 when the French the French are at fault withdrew their protection of those towns. In one night they had an army in that area protecting the neighborhoods. They announced that they were withdrawing. Wow, and that one night what happens is this guy, no-transcript come people to murder the people. My grandmother, in her nightgown and with the little girl, goes and one night they stay in the river and my mother takes hold of her aunt's hand and starts running and all the neighborhood young men thinking that Dr Khacher Keshishan has been the doctor of all this town. Nobody's going to kill him and he's the sarf pharmacist, and they come to get refuge in his house. And in that house all of them are murderers. Oh my goodness, all of them are kids. I mean, these are real story.
Speaker 2:So my and because your grandmother left with your mom yes, your mom was holding them, my aunt, your aunt.
Speaker 1:My mother went with her aunt. So what my mother says is that here we are running, I lost the hand of my aunt, oh no. And then I started looking for my aunt and then I found out that she was hit from her throat. Oh, she was dying. So the French were across the river and she was a kid, eight years old, jumping over dead bodies, oh, my goodness. And the French people scolded him, drew him her and brought her out and saved her. My mother found her mother after 10 days. Wow, you know, these are first time stories that-.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:So, in a way, what do I come to is my heritage, through my family's and the role that I played in the Armenian community. Maybe there is some continuity. Yeah, because my mother was graduate, my grandmother was educated and her eldest child was eight years old. The other one was six years old and she was six months pregnant, so she delivered in a camp. Oh, wow. So in a way. But because they were involved in Armenian craft and handiwork, she thought that she would do earn some money, so she would take from the Armenian women who had lost their husbands. They had to take care of their children and needed money, and they took the embroidery.
Speaker 1:It was the second first world war. The British army was in Aleppo. Okay, because she knew English, she went to all these hotels and, speaking English, sold the handicraft so that these people would earn money, god's willing, and she would bring money in. Wow, eventually, after two, three years, a French missionary association you should know about this Its name. Do you know French? Oh, on poor, then their name is Axion Chrétien, christian Action. Yeah, they opened. Axion Chrétien opened a huge office in Aleppo. Their office purpose was to help these widows with children who needed income but at the same time they had to take care of their children.
Speaker 1:So my grandmother was responsible for 500 women to whom she used to give the material, the thread, the design. They would go home, they would work at home, take care of their children. When they are done with their work, they would come to her, she would check the handwork and she would pay them. And this handwork would go to three European countries Holland, switzerland and France Wow, and they would be sold there. Entrepreneurship you know my grandmother. She was a very. They used to call her Lady in Turkish is Khanum. Her name was Turvant Khanum, so she was called the Lady. In that way she kept family going. Also, she had done a baby boy and my mother and my aunt and she kept that business. This is I would like to tell you this that when the Soviet Union opened, after the Second World War, the borders for Armenians to return to Armenia, A lot of things happened.
Speaker 1:Many of the Armenians in Aleppo registered and they wanted to go to Armenia and they used to call it to have. You have to be registered to go to Armenia and the red letter would come, for example, that you have to pack in one day or two and then you have to get on the train, get on the boat, taxi and go to my grandmother. At that time, for all the workers, she had wrote letters telling that this many years this woman worked for me and they collected social security in Armenia based on my grandmother's letters.
Speaker 2:God bless her. Wow, hey, how big was the community in Aleppo.
Speaker 1:Very big. As a matter of fact, this is in the 40s, late 40s, I would say. It's starting. They moved. They moved to Aleppo around early 1920s 1920s, because my mother got married in 1929, for example.
Speaker 1:Okay, aleppo was the first stop. Aleppo was very close to the Turkish border. So we, as an Armenian community, most of these communities, most of them, some of them were Turkish speaking. Okay, some of them Marash and Zeytun, the place where my grandparents came, were Armenian, but Antep was Turkish, for example. So I would like to say that when I was a little girl, in our churches in Aleppo the services were bilingual, really Turkish and Armenian In Aleppo. In Aleppo, because there were Armenian churches, yeah, and there were some Armenians who were not well versed in Armenian, all right. And then all the hymns that you sang today we know them in Armenian, in Armenian alphabet, because my grandmother knew all those hymns as a child. I remember she used to wake up at five o'clock to prepare our breakfast. She used to whistle beautifully and she used to whistle the hymns. The hymns, no, she used to whistle, to whistle.
Speaker 1:So when my father and my mother were in the car coming to Beirut, lebanon, to attend my undergraduate commencement, my father told my mother Geron who do you think your daughter Wilma is after? I think she's after your mother. She's just like your mother. This is what my father said to my mother Because in my running Higazian University from 1971 to 2001, out of which 16 years, I was alone in the university At the beginning, when I went, there was a president. Gradually, when the Civil War broke out in 1974, americans were afraid they were being kidnapped, they were being killed. And then there was a year, in 1984, that the president used not to be able to even leave the office because he was afraid, dr Verne, that he would be kidnapped. So I would do the business and go to the office we have. Higazian University has two boards Board of Trustees in Los Angeles and Board of Managers in Beirut. At that date they decided that he had to leave the office. They created a new post which was named Administrative Dean, and they entrusted the university to me.
Speaker 2:Wow, from 19. What was the name of the university? It?
Speaker 1:was the First. It was Higazian College. When I got it during my tenure I turned it into university. That's what I'm going to say. The name changed university Because I got it as Higazian College. But during my administration from 1984 to 1995, I attended the Minister of Education in Beirut for a profile and everything. We changed the name of the college into university.
Speaker 2:So tell me about when did you meet Jesus?
Speaker 1:I want to say this, and I'm grateful for it indefinitely that with all my childhood evangelical education not Sunday School Missed, not Chanitz Youth Group Missed, not conferences in Lebanon Missed, not chapels at School Missed I was attentive but I would say 100%. I was not it, I would say, but I was in the routine of it. And even at the time when I was at Miss String Higazian University now I'm using the name Union of Armenian Evangelical Churches made me represent Middle East Council of Churches. I represented at their meetings and I used to meet the archbishops from Egypt, from Iraq, from Syria. You know I represented my union at that time also. But I would say that all of a sudden, when I realized that 16 years during shelling, three years in the shelter, living, walking, seeing a student die in a car, In the 1990s, 80s, when was that?
Speaker 1:No, it started in 1975.
Speaker 2:Okay, oh, the early one, yeah it ended in 1990.
Speaker 1:So the shells would fall. This is West Beirut. This is East Beirut. There is the green line. The name of it was horse track. In the good days there was horse training and racing in that area. So what I would do is get into public transportation, come to the site East Beirut and, through sniping, walk that distance to West Beirut. Get into a car and go to West Beirut. How about that? Were you ever afraid? I was telling. Today I changed my posture while walking.
Speaker 3:And so when I was walking like this, the sniper would not see me.
Speaker 1:Do you know why I'm telling you this? I can tell you 10 or 15 other incidents that I was as close as ever, but later than I saw. Every day that I left my home, I did not know whether I would end in a morgue, in a hospital or be able to return home. But then, all of a sudden, I realized God's work in my life. In spite of all these dangers, in spite of all these threats, in spite of all these anxieties, I did not end in those places. I was still able to help because God told me you're going to stay safe, because you still have a mission for me. This is what I can say Amen, you see, amen. So that brought me you were telling me full realization. This could not have happened if I did not have a God who loved me and protected me, and he had a purpose for me.
Speaker 3:Amen.
Speaker 1:This is my Amen. This is what I'm answering you.
Speaker 2:Amen, I love it. That's fantastic, thank you. Thank you for that and that's an inspiration to everybody listening. Trust the Lord, proverbs 3, 5, and 6. Trust in the Lord with all your heart.
Speaker 1:Yes, I mean, you know because you know what used to happen was that there was a day my office in West Bay Road was at the place Austrian restaurant next to my office, jumblat.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:We used to bring his date there Jumblat is a clan leader every lunch. One day they decided to kill him Nope, so they placed a bomb in our area when they placed. I'm sitting in my office, there are windows at my back and I have closed the drapes. All of a sudden the whole building shook up. Mm, it's a fire everywhere and the glass of my windows all shattered and like knives in the window. If I had not crossed the drapes, those glass would come on my body and I would have died. This is one escape, for example. Then one of my students he have regis, 19 year old student. He died. He burned in his car in that accident and we took 80 students to the hospital that day 80, 80 students to the hospital that day, you know, I and then I was not to leave the campus until everybody left.
Speaker 1:Can you believe this? That I would be responsible for them? And then so that student died. And then I had to have that painful experience of going to the parents and talking about the only thing we found in the car was he was the poor guy was sitting in the car in a piece of paper, his name. He was studying in the car in the corner it was in the corner of Mughal building, that the bomb. So when these things happened, my neighbors there was no electricity, only candlelight. So my neighbors in the building would hear in the news that such a thing happened in the neighborhood of Haigazian University. They would worry about me. They would go back and forth to see if there is light in my apartment. They would worry whether I had died or something like that. And then if, when they would see the candlelight, they would be relieved that I was okay kind of a thing you know.
Speaker 2:I protected you throughout that whole yeah, I was protected.
Speaker 1:I would say what else can I say? Yes, absolutely my only example of looking of purity and justice and everything is looking at Christ Jesus.
Speaker 1:Amen, he's the example because not in the scripture. It says not I, I, I is a true Christian either. You know. I would like to say what my mother was a decanate church, no, okay. And she was a very, very bright woman. She was a college educated girl also. You know what she used to tell me. She used to say my daughter she is. If somebody does bad things to you, don't worry your head about it and don't even poison your mind, because you have to know that each one of us are going to face our God alone yeah that's what she used to say.
Speaker 1:She said if it affects you, he's not going to change. You're going to change. It's going to hurt you. Don't let it, because if somebody hurts, you know him, but don't harbor anything against him. Right, because each one of us will face our own God, that's all amen, amen.
Speaker 2:You know it is a pleasure talking to you. I like listening. Thank you, wilma.
Speaker 1:God bless you and I know one thing that it was a God sent.
Speaker 2:Yes, I met you amen, yes, thank you so much for being on the radio program. Amen, amen, hallelujah to that boy. God bless Wilma. She is a just a dear saint in the Lord and we're looking forward to going back to the Armenian martyrs congregation congregational church. Sorry about that, the Armenian martyrs congregational church in Havartown, pa. It's just outside of Philly.
Speaker 2:You guys want to hear something funny or interesting. I should say my first, my first official ministry job, was at first Baptist church in Manusquam, new Jersey. It turns out the senior pastor that was there at the time, joe Gratzel, the Reverend Gratzel, he did. He was an intern at the Armenian martyrs congregational church in Havartown, pa, when he was in seminary and he sent a note to to Katie after she posted a picture, I guess, or posted something online on one of our socials and he even he gave a Jeanette a shout out.
Speaker 2:Jeanette was in the group interview we did last week and in the extended part that I'll put a link up for it is a small world man, it is just that's incredible. Small world. Christ connects us all. He is the common denominator in our faith. So, like I said, check out the links. God willing, lord willing, we will be back next week. We have some stuff for you. Next week we're getting back into some plays on word, breaking down the play, all right and we're also going to update you on some stuff. That's going on, some news. But until we meet again then may the Lord bless you and keep you. The Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you.
Speaker 3:The Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace this program was made possible by the plays on word family of supporters. To find out more, check out our website at plays on wordorg.
